Still hmail or something new for the next server?

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kfj
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Still hmail or something new for the next server?

Post by kfj » 2023-07-28 16:14

I see that hmail will not being actively developped any longer. I have to set up a new mailserver on windows in the near future.
I searched for alternatives but did not find a good solution so far. The best on first sight seemed to be mailenable, but in the support forum there is not much activity. I cannot believe the reason is, that the people do not need support with mailenable...
What alternatives to hmailserver are you considering for your next windows server?

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Re: Still hmail or something new for the next server?

Post by johang » 2023-07-28 17:52

kfj wrote:
2023-07-28 16:14
I see that hmail will not being actively developped any longer. I have to set up a new mailserver on windows in the near future.
I searched for alternatives but did not find a good solution so far. The best on first sight seemed to be mailenable, but in the support forum there is not much activity. I cannot believe the reason is, that the people do not need support with mailenable...
What alternatives to hmailserver are you considering for your next windows server?
sticking with it until theres a major bug or security flaw thats not resolved ( havent been one yet.. and it looks like theres a bif chance of the software getting some love in respect to SSL evolvement and what not.. )


if you want to discuss other email servers i sugget to start a thread in "Off-topic discussion"
lets cheat darwin out of his legacy, find a cure for cancer...

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Re: Still hmail or something new for the next server?

Post by palinka » 2023-07-28 19:01

hms ride or die.

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Re: Still hmail or something new for the next server?

Post by kfj » 2023-07-29 11:18

johang wrote:
2023-07-28 17:52
if you want to discuss other email servers i sugget to start a thread in "Off-topic discussion"
I understand. I do not want to create a double posting there. Can I move the post myself or can an admin do that please?

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Re: Still hmail or something new for the next server?

Post by RvdH » 2023-07-29 11:32

Your question entirely depends on you needs, do you only need a basic SMTP/POP/IMAP server then hMailServer will do just right. As long as you do not expect new features, as none will be added.
Feature wise i don't think MailEnable and hMailServer differ that much, unfortunatly some of the features that are default in hMailServer require a paid version of MailEnable (Professional/Enterprise) and are not included in MailEnable (Standard).
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Re: Still hmail or something new for the next server?

Post by johang » 2023-07-29 16:18

kfj wrote:
2023-07-28 16:14
What alternatives to hmailserver are you considering for your next windows server?

im curious about Apache James ... (this is where i will get bashed from Sören on this forum.. where he will write something about JAVA being so SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWwwwww)
perhaps someone has tried it out and cared to do a review??

my reaction regarding mailenable is the same as RvdH's ( except that at least they now allow IMAP since of version 8 in the "standard/free" version.. )
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Re: Still hmail or something new for the next server?

Post by SorenR » 2023-07-29 17:30

johang wrote:
2023-07-29 16:18
kfj wrote:
2023-07-28 16:14
What alternatives to hmailserver are you considering for your next windows server?

im curious about Apache James ... (this is where i will get bashed from Sören on this forum.. where he will write something about JAVA being so SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWwwwww)
:mrgreen:
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Re: Still hmail or something new for the next server?

Post by random » 2023-10-21 21:17

johang wrote:
2023-07-29 16:18
im curious about Apache James ...
I tried Apache James a few months ago, but I couldn't get it to work on my windows machine.
But I have to admit, I didn't put much effort on that.
Just running a small server with a few users.

PS:
I think I'll move to Linux. And my first shot to replace hmailserver is Stalwart Mail.

lg
random

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Re: Still hmail or something new for the next server?

Post by keysteal » 2024-03-14 08:58

Anyone else have any idea what other open source mail server to use?

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Re: Still hmail or something new for the next server?

Post by jimimaseye » 2024-03-14 09:45

I went to my local Ford dealership last week and asked them what Nissan they would recommend. No surprises on what they said.
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Re: Still hmail or something new for the next server?

Post by SorenR » 2024-03-14 17:20

johang wrote:
2023-07-29 16:18
kfj wrote:
2023-07-28 16:14
What alternatives to hmailserver are you considering for your next windows server?

im curious about Apache James ... (this is where i will get bashed from Sören on this forum.. where he will write something about JAVA being so SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWwwwww)
perhaps someone has tried it out and cared to do a review??

my reaction regarding mailenable is the same as RvdH's ( except that at least they now allow IMAP since of version 8 in the "standard/free" version.. )
430674672_826163836208254_456042.jpg
430674672_826163836208254_456042.jpg (90.38 KiB) Viewed 1126 times
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Re: Still hmail or something new for the next server?

Post by katip » 2024-03-14 20:54

johang wrote:
2023-07-29 16:18
im curious about Apache James ... (this is where i will get bashed from Sören on this forum.. where he will write something about JAVA being so SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWwwwww)
perhaps someone has tried it out and cared to do a review??
This James thing reminds me the contrast between Apache Web Server and IIS. Well, I'm definitely not a Next-Next...Finish fan or plain text .config freak, however I'd better try to develope myself in Postfix/Dovecot & Co. combo - if I'd prefer to attempt a radical change one day. For the moment my latest setup (both at home and work) with HMS behind a Proxmox MG looks promising for future. Tests finished, already in production. And implementation was very smooth/pleasant, ongoing fine tunings & tweaks as well... You RTFM of course, but it's ok :D
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Re: Still hmail or something new for the next server?

Post by SorenR » 2024-03-14 22:50

katip wrote:
2024-03-14 20:54
johang wrote:
2023-07-29 16:18
im curious about Apache James ... (this is where i will get bashed from Sören on this forum.. where he will write something about JAVA being so SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWwwwww)
perhaps someone has tried it out and cared to do a review??
This James thing reminds me the contrast between Apache Web Server and IIS. Well, I'm definitely not a Next-Next...Finish fan or plain text .config freak, however I'd better try to develope myself in Postfix/Dovecot & Co. combo - if I'd prefer to attempt a radical change one day. For the moment my latest setup (both at home and work) with HMS behind a Proxmox MG looks promising for future. Tests finished, already in production. And implementation was very smooth/pleasant, ongoing fine tunings & tweaks as well... You RTFM of course, but it's ok :D
What exactly are you using Proxmox for ??

Just asking as my server (5.6.9) seems to function flawlessly ...
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Re: Still hmail or something new for the next server?

Post by katip » 2024-03-15 05:43

SorenR wrote:
2024-03-14 22:50
What exactly are you using Proxmox for ??

Just asking as my server (5.6.9) seems to function flawlessly ...
It's mainly an SMTP proxy in both directions (in/out) with classic Postfix + SA + ClamAV combo, all in a Debian box/VM with a good web UI, reports, monitors, quarantine, certs management etc..
If you like, adding also a seperate Dovecot IMAP/POP proxy is a 15 minutes job only. All in all it's a Linux.

In fact, my 5.7 HMS too is working fine for now but till when? What if/when some newer SMTP/IMAP extensions become common (soon?) and biggers (MS, Gmail...) start to enforce them?
I expect/hope Proxmox (or some alike) will stay compatible with its current backend for a long time while following latest standarts itself.
BTW project is open source, a Community Licence which removes a reminder dialog during UI login (if it really matters) and gives access to an extra-updates repository is low enough, i.e. almost nothing even for a company of modest size.
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Re: Still hmail or something new for the next server?

Post by keysteal » 2024-03-15 11:07

katip wrote:
2024-03-15 05:43
SorenR wrote:
2024-03-14 22:50
What exactly are you using Proxmox for ??

Just asking as my server (5.6.9) seems to function flawlessly ...
It's mainly an SMTP proxy in both directions (in/out) with classic Postfix + SA + ClamAV combo, all in a Debian box/VM with a good web UI, reports, monitors, quarantine, certs management etc..
If you like, adding also a seperate Dovecot IMAP/POP proxy is a 15 minutes job only. All in all it's a Linux.

In fact, my 5.7 HMS too is working fine for now but till when? What if/when some newer SMTP/IMAP extensions become common (soon?) and biggers (MS, Gmail...) start to enforce them?
I expect/hope Proxmox (or some alike) will stay compatible with its current backend for a long time while following latest standarts itself.
BTW project is open source, a Community Licence which removes a reminder dialog during UI login (if it really matters) and gives access to an extra-updates repository is low enough, i.e. almost nothing even for a company of modest size.
I use Efa Project as gateway mail server, but i'm worried about the HMS destiny :(

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Re: Still hmail or something new for the next server?

Post by SorenR » 2024-03-15 18:09

katip wrote:
2024-03-15 05:43
SorenR wrote:
2024-03-14 22:50
What exactly are you using Proxmox for ??

Just asking as my server (5.6.9) seems to function flawlessly ...
It's mainly an SMTP proxy in both directions (in/out) with classic Postfix + SA + ClamAV combo, all in a Debian box/VM with a good web UI, reports, monitors, quarantine, certs management etc..
If you like, adding also a seperate Dovecot IMAP/POP proxy is a 15 minutes job only. All in all it's a Linux.

In fact, my 5.7 HMS too is working fine for now but till when? What if/when some newer SMTP/IMAP extensions become common (soon?) and biggers (MS, Gmail...) start to enforce them?
I expect/hope Proxmox (or some alike) will stay compatible with its current backend for a long time while following latest standarts itself.
BTW project is open source, a Community Licence which removes a reminder dialog during UI login (if it really matters) and gives access to an extra-updates repository is low enough, i.e. almost nothing even for a company of modest size.
As long as hMailServer adheres to the common RFC's I do not see a problem. On port 25 SSL/STARTTLS cannot be anything other than OPTIONAL! Same with certificates, SPF, DKIM, DMARC and DANE.

Having read some of the documentation on Proxmox MG I am tempted to claim I actually do it all and more - EXCEPT the fancy GUI... I seriously spend less than 3 hours TOTAL doing REAL maintenance of my servers (primary & backupMX) including SPAM/HAM config per week ...

hMailServer check ClamD, DNSBL's, SURBL's and SpamAssassin. SpamAssassin check ClamD (yes again) and update Bayes rules nightly. Most of the time I don't adjust settings in SpamAssassin in months!

I have a nightly script that runs the SpamAssassin Bayes learning on ALL INBOX and SPAM folders - including my special SPAM account folders. Been running without intervention for a couple of years now - except I moved the SpamAssassin installation off of the primary server and to the backupMX server - no changes otherwise.

SPAM is moved to account SPAM folders based on scoring, low scoring goes in Account SPAM folder AND special SPAM Account, high scores goes to special SPAM Account ONLY.

White/Black/SPAM/Reject lists are dynamic and only run on NON-SPAM emails so adding a rule to the database is instantational. Maintenance consists of removing Black/SPAM list entries as/when they are picked up by Bayes. Every rule is updated with "last run date/time" and "number of runs"
I update lists maybe once or twice per quarter (3 months).

AutoBan is handled entirely by scripting and are either "hardcoded" or Black/Reject list controlled.
IDS (Intrusion Detection System) is triggered by not completing transactions and monitored by a script run outside hMailServer. All events are logged in the database and cleared on successfull transactions. Event pairs are: (OnClientConnect) -> (OnClientLogon) for IMAP/POP3 and (OnClientConnect) -> (OnAcceptMessage) for SMTP, not SUBM. Any events remaining exceeding 3 hits within a 180 minute interval will result in AutoBan.

Any failed deliveries (outbound) are returned to sender and a copy goes to postmaster/root. Most events in OnError are logged in custom logs.

Incoming emails where one or more attachments are flagged as VIRUS/illegal filetype have the attachment removed and delivered to recipient (standard hMailServer) - HOWEVER a copy of the ORIGINAL email is forwarded to postmaster/root for review.

All in all ... I spend so little time checking on my servers that I sometimes forget to do it :mrgreen:

And my SPAM/UCE hit rate is getting close to 99,5%. Training a Bayes filter require the same effort as raising a kid :wink:
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Re: Still hmail or something new for the next server?

Post by katip » 2024-03-15 18:32

Soren,
i'm doing more or less same things you tell about, like many others here.
But have you read my concern?
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Re: Still hmail or something new for the next server?

Post by RvdH » 2024-03-16 02:37

katip wrote:
2024-03-15 05:43
SorenR wrote:
2024-03-14 22:50
What exactly are you using Proxmox for ??

Just asking as my server (5.6.9) seems to function flawlessly ...
It's mainly an SMTP proxy in both directions (in/out) with classic Postfix + SA + ClamAV combo, all in a Debian box/VM with a good web UI, reports, monitors, quarantine, certs management etc..
If you like, adding also a seperate Dovecot IMAP/POP proxy is a 15 minutes job only. All in all it's a Linux.

In fact, my 5.7 HMS too is working fine for now but till when? What if/when some newer SMTP/IMAP extensions become common (soon?) and biggers (MS, Gmail...) start to enforce them?
I expect/hope Proxmox (or some alike) will stay compatible with its current backend for a long time while following latest standarts itself.
BTW project is open source, a Community Licence which removes a reminder dialog during UI login (if it really matters) and gives access to an extra-updates repository is low enough, i.e. almost nothing even for a company of modest size.
Have been thinking about this setup, but basically only because you said it worked so well
So how, Proxmox as VM or physical? Really think i should try it out sometime, but knowing from the past, editing config files is so much easier in lets say notepad++ apposed to nano or the alike, ffs, i am really a Windows man i realize :oops: :lol:

I easily could run a VM alongside my main Windows Server 2022 install on this hardware, i used to do actually, running SpamAssassin 3.4.6 in Ubuntu Server at the time Jam in and myself not created alternatives.
eg: server is NUC8i5BEH with 32GB ram, Samsung 960 Pro, 512GB, Samsung SSD 870 QVO 1TB as backup drive for pretty much everything i can take nightly backups form, eg: mySQL, HMS, IIS, Windows Server Backup
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Re: Still hmail or something new for the next server?

Post by katip » 2024-03-16 06:34

RvdH wrote:
2024-03-16 02:37
Have been thinking about this setup, but basically only because you said it worked so well
So how, Proxmox as VM or physical? Really think i should try it out sometime, but knowing from the past, editing config files is so much easier in lets say notepad++ apposed to nano or the alike, ffs, i am really a Windows man i realize :oops: :lol:

I easily could run a VM alongside my main Windows Server 2022 install on this hardware, i used to do actually, running SpamAssassin 3.4.6 in Ubuntu Server at the time Jam in and myself not created alternatives.
eg: server is NUC8i5BEH with 32GB ram, Samsung 960 Pro, 512GB, Samsung SSD 870 QVO 1TB as backup drive for pretty much everything i can take nightly backups form, eg: mySQL, HMS, IIS, Windows Server Backup
Yes, let me summarize.
I started to test it in a Proxmox VE (Virtual Environment) as VM with 4GB RAM + 4 cores (daily 7-8K SMTP inbound). It often peaked full RAM/CPU but kept alive. Then I took it to dedicated metal (because i don't have better resources for a test VM) - a modest retired HP PC, i5 CPU, 8GB RAM - crossed fingers and launched production. Now with avg. 1-10% and max. ~40% peakings it works flawless since about 3 weeks. At home it's still on a Hyper-V VM, but load is very low compared to office, so no idea if Hyper-V or Linux equivalent as host may matter.

In fact, to what concerns SA and ClamAV, I changed almost nothing except their home. They were on same box together with HMS, I used to run them also in an Ubuntu for some years in the past. Now they run in Proxmox with same SA .cf's (about 10+, WLs, BL, MIME, Body, METAs, URI...) and bayes + a sa-learn crone job, and ClamAV with defaults (not important, should just run) & Sanesecurity added by myself. Notice that some locations in directory tree are different, but easy to figure out.

The rest is some essential network settings, certs etc... But UI is not only "fancy" as Soren suggested, but useful as well. Generally settings and tweaks are inituitive. Bonus! External POP accounts, very similar to HMS equivalent. Config backup/restore works fine. In case of a re-installation, it takes not more than a few minutes to start again right from where you backed up. Help docus are not the best but often good enough. Community support seems to be nearly as good as here (never posted something yet).

I didn't dare to touch Postfix configs yet, it simply works out of box, so no need for now, probably ever..

Mates, don't get me wrong, I'll keep staying with HMS as long as it runs. But in case it will start to stutter or get heavily dumb/deaf one day, having a fit "helper" ready - till funeral (or resurrection, who knows) - looks like a good idea to me.
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Re: Still hmail or something new for the next server?

Post by mattg » 2024-03-17 01:22

RvdH wrote:
2024-03-16 02:37
ffs, i am really a Windows man i realize :oops: :lol:
Webmin was the enlightening moment for me, and has been one of the main reasons that I roll out Linux (Ubuntu) servers
The linux foot print is so small, especially if you stay away from Apache and run Nginx instead (Apache uses two threads to handle SSL connections, NGINX uses one)
Just 'cause I link to a page and say little else doesn't mean I am not being nice.
https://www.hmailserver.com/documentation

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Re: Still hmail or something new for the next server?

Post by kdiamond » 2024-04-02 19:36

Why stick to Windows? Maybe you find a mail server that offers what you need and give it the OS it needs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compariso ... il_servers

I choose Zimbra. I installed VirtualBox on my Windows server. Installed Ubuntu VM and installed Zimbra. I used IMAPcopy (windows command line app) to transfer mailboxes from HMS to Zimbra. It wasn't that much of a deal.

Br,
kd

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