flashing emails Vs Distribution list

Use this forum if you have installed hMailServer and want to ask a question related to a production release of hMailServer. Before posting, please read the troubleshooting guide. A large part of all reported issues are already described in detail here.
Post Reply
itsmesri
Normal user
Normal user
Posts: 59
Joined: 2014-11-07 08:30

flashing emails Vs Distribution list

Post by itsmesri » 2016-05-31 22:24

I am a recruiter and I send emails to my all my sub vendors about recruitment. If I flash emails ((all emails address in BCC) goes flash immediately but If I send using distribution list email s sends slows to recipients . I send to 2 distribution list address which contains 300 emails each. Personal id is in one of those list. I get email after 20 or 30 mins after I sent. I don't know what is the issue here. Is that way designed or something wrong with my server?

User avatar
jimimaseye
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8854
Joined: 2011-09-08 17:48

Re: flashing emails Vs Distribution list

Post by jimimaseye » 2016-05-31 22:40

Please try not to duplicate - too many threads saying the same thing makes things complicated and wastes readers and responders time. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29682

I doubt there is anything wrong with your server.

You can do your own tests:

1, Enable SMTP logging
2, Send an email to a handful of addresses (say, 20 addresses) as BCC
3, Send another email to the same address as part of a distribution list.
4, View the LOGS and in particular, the times of how it handles the SMTPC deliveries and the SMTPD accepting email from the client.

You should be able to see similarities or where you delay lies.

FWIW I send a Christmas email out to 450 addresses as BCC and it takes 1 hour to complete. I dont consider that as quick either, and that is as BCC.
5.7 on test.
SpamassassinForWindows 3.4.0 spamd service
AV: Clamwin + Clamd service + sanesecurity defs : https://www.hmailserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=26829

User avatar
jimimaseye
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8854
Joined: 2011-09-08 17:48

Re: flashing emails Vs Distribution list

Post by jimimaseye » 2016-05-31 23:03

I can tell you I did a test with 19 address and as expected I see absolutely no difference whatsoever in the receiving or sending of the emails to the relevant addresses. None. The only difference may be that a distribution list takes a second or two to parse out its recipient list of 300 addresses rather that them all being given directly by the sending email client in BCC. But once outbound delivery starts, everything is equal.
PASSING BY EMAIL CLIENT FOR DELIVERY as DISTRIBUTION LIST
"SMTPD" 4428 905 "2016-05-31 23:12:30.248" "192.168.0.200" "SENT: 220 Northcote SMTP"
"SMTPD" 4768 905 "2016-05-31 23:12:30.887" "192.168.0.200" "SENT: 221 goodbye"
-took 0.6 seconds --

DELIVERY OUT STARTS
"APPLICATION" 3088 "2016-05-31 23:12:30.903" "SMTPDeliverer - Message 304969: Delivering message from albertATmydomain.net to rancidpennyATtiscali.it, geoffsmatesAThotmail.net, geoffsmatesATgmail.net, geoffsshed-megaATyahoo.net, geoffsshed-cloudATyahoo.net, geoffsshed-amazonATyahoo.net, geoffsshed-bonusATyahoo.net, geoffsshed-paypalATyahoo.net, geoffsshed-pcworldATyahoo.net, geoffsshed-snapATyahoo.net, geoffsshed-ebayATyahoo.net, geoffsshed-helpATyahoo.net, geoffsshed-quotesATyahoo.net, geoffsshed-20ATyahoo.net, tracey.pennyATlibero.it, geoffsshed-stopspammingmeATyahoo.net, rabbitfriendsATymail.net, robinATymail.net. File: D:\Datastore\hMailData\{67A9E4A0-0832-4273-A8F3-90D5902F5834}.eml"
"APPLICATION" 3088 "2016-05-31 23:13:08.780" "SMTPDeliverer - Message 304969: Message delivery thread completed."
DELIVERY CONCLUDED
-- took 38 seconds --



PASSING BY EMAIL CLIENT FOR DELIVERY as BCC
"SMTPD" 4428 530 "2016-05-31 21:57:40.714" "192.168.0.200" "SENT: 220 Ourmail SMTP"
"SMTPD" 4428 530 "2016-05-31 21:57:41.369" "192.168.0.200" "SENT: 221 goodbye"
-- took 0.6 seconds --

DELIVERY OUT STARTS
"APPLICATION" 3088 "2016-05-31 21:57:41.416" "SMTPDeliverer - Message 304960: Delivering message from albertATmydomain.net to rancidpennyATtiscali.it, geoffsmatesAThotmail.net, geoffsmatesATgmail.net, geoffsshed-megaATyahoo.net, geoffsshed-cloudATyahoo.net, geoffsshed-amazonATyahoo.net, geoffsshed-bonusATyahoo.net, geoffsshed-paypalATyahoo.net, geoffsshed-pcworldATyahoo.net, geoffsshed-snapATyahoo.net, geoffsshed-ebayATyahoo.net, geoffsshed-helpATyahoo.net, geoffsshed-quotesATyahoo.net, geoffsshed-20ATyahoo.net, tracey.pennyATlibero.it, geoffsshed-stopspammingmeATyahoo.net, rabbitfriendsATymail.net, robinATymail.net. File: D:\Datastore\hMailData\{59AEE21C-A795-42B2-8F64-195ACF5FC1DF}.eml"
"APPLICATION" 3088 "2016-05-31 21:58:15.986" "SMTPDeliverer - Message 304960: Message delivery thread completed."
DELIVERY CONCLUDED
-- took 34 seconds --
5.7 on test.
SpamassassinForWindows 3.4.0 spamd service
AV: Clamwin + Clamd service + sanesecurity defs : https://www.hmailserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=26829

itsmesri
Normal user
Normal user
Posts: 59
Joined: 2014-11-07 08:30

Re: flashing emails Vs Distribution list

Post by itsmesri » 2016-06-01 21:16

Is it possible to open SMTP sessions? I have no clue. If Yes, how to. Will that works for faster sending emails?

User avatar
jimimaseye
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8854
Joined: 2011-09-08 17:48

Re: flashing emails Vs Distribution list

Post by jimimaseye » 2016-06-01 21:23

https://www.hmailserver.com/documentati ... erformance

You could increase the delivery threads.

Why is 20 minutes so unacceptable? You cant control some things: uplink speed, hardware, recipient doing greylisting, operating TLS, DNS reverse verification checking etc). IT doesnt stop you doing other things (surely you can just launch and forget it).
5.7 on test.
SpamassassinForWindows 3.4.0 spamd service
AV: Clamwin + Clamd service + sanesecurity defs : https://www.hmailserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=26829

itsmesri
Normal user
Normal user
Posts: 59
Joined: 2014-11-07 08:30

Re: flashing emails Vs Distribution list

Post by itsmesri » 2016-06-01 21:37

honestly some times I need to send urgent niche requirements to thousands of people. That time I will loose time laps.

User avatar
jimimaseye
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8854
Joined: 2011-09-08 17:48

Re: flashing emails Vs Distribution list

Post by jimimaseye » 2016-06-01 21:39

Upgrade then.

More hardware, faster line, increased performance settings..... theres no stopping you except MONEY!
5.7 on test.
SpamassassinForWindows 3.4.0 spamd service
AV: Clamwin + Clamd service + sanesecurity defs : https://www.hmailserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=26829

itsmesri
Normal user
Normal user
Posts: 59
Joined: 2014-11-07 08:30

Re: flashing emails Vs Distribution list

Post by itsmesri » 2016-06-01 21:40

Mine defined 10 delivery threads..

itsmesri
Normal user
Normal user
Posts: 59
Joined: 2014-11-07 08:30

Re: flashing emails Vs Distribution list

Post by itsmesri » 2016-06-01 21:42

jimimaseye wrote:Upgrade then.

More hardware, faster line, increased performance settings..... theres no stopping you except MONEY!
I have dedicated 8 GB RAM, 300 MB line. I don't it is enough or need to go up

User avatar
mattg
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 21195
Joined: 2007-06-14 05:12
Location: 'The Outback' Australia

Re: flashing emails Vs Distribution list

Post by mattg » 2016-06-01 23:17

No matter how fast you send send messages out, if I didn't want to receive it immediately, you wouldn't send it to me immediately...

The point is that it takes two end points to have communication, just because you are sending doesn't mean that anyone is listening
Just 'cause I link to a page and say little else doesn't mean I am not being nice.
https://www.hmailserver.com/documentation

itsmesri
Normal user
Normal user
Posts: 59
Joined: 2014-11-07 08:30

Re: flashing emails Vs Distribution list

Post by itsmesri » 2016-06-02 01:51

Matt, I understand that. Why SMTP is need to wait for listener to send another one and wait. It can send as many as it is possible and wait for the response to come back one by one (some responses could be faster) .

May be I am poor in technical.

User avatar
mattg
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 21195
Joined: 2007-06-14 05:12
Location: 'The Outback' Australia

Re: flashing emails Vs Distribution list

Post by mattg » 2016-06-02 08:27

Maybe the recipients block or hold your mail, or maybe the issue a greylisting '451 try again' code
Just 'cause I link to a page and say little else doesn't mean I am not being nice.
https://www.hmailserver.com/documentation

User avatar
jimimaseye
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8854
Joined: 2011-09-08 17:48

Re: flashing emails Vs Distribution list

Post by jimimaseye » 2016-06-02 10:40

Also, consider this:

You are just installing spamassassin and eventually you will notice that receiving an email will pass it to SA for checking before finally being accepted. And when you look in your SPAMD.log you will see each email could take 3 or 4 seconds or so to be scanned.

eg
Thu Jun 2 06:49:33 2016 [-4668] info: spamd: connection from Mailserver [127.0.0.1]:64348 to port 783, fd 6
Thu Jun 2 06:49:33 2016 [-4668] info: spamd: processing message <ADR410000004301562000050568E2E1D1ED68A90B6FAC71320C3@IVCGROUP.COM> for (unknown):0
Thu Jun 2 06:49:34 2016 [-4668] info: spamd: clean message (-3.3/3.0) for (unknown):0 in 1.0 seconds, 55714 bytes.
Thu Jun 2 06:49:34 2016 [-4668] info: spamd: result: . -3 - BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL,RP_MATCHES_RCVD,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY scantime=1.0,size=55714,user=(unknown),uid=0,required_score=3.0,rhost=Mailserver,raddr=127.0.0.1,rport=64348,mid=<ADR410000004301562000050568E2E1D1ED68A90B6FAC71320C3@IVCGROUP.COM>,bayes=0.000000,autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Thu Jun 2 07:36:35 2016 [-3344] info: spamd: connection from Mailserver [127.0.0.1]:64556 to port 783, fd 6
Thu Jun 2 07:36:35 2016 [-3344] info: spamd: processing message <WIN-CT9HR2U5JR6a1d1bf1b29da41b6a693a76be3beca75@WIN-CT9HR2U5JR6> for (unknown):0
Thu Jun 2 07:36:39 2016 [-3344] info: spamd: clean message (2.8/3.0) for (unknown):0 in 4.0 seconds, 17018 bytes.
Thu Jun 2 07:36:39 2016 [-3344] info: spamd: result: . 2 - BAYES_00,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02,HTML_MESSAGE,MIME_HTML_ONLY,MIME_HTML_ONLY_MULTI,MPART_ALT_DIFF,RCVD_IN_BRBL_LASTEXT,SPF_PASS,URIBL_ABUSE_SURBL scantime=4.0,size=17018,user=(unknown),uid=0,required_score=3.0,rhost=Mailserver,raddr=127.0.0.1,rport=64556,mid=<WIN-CT9HR2U5JR6a1d1bf1b29da41b6a693a76be3beca75@WIN-CT9HR2U5JR6>,bayes=0.000134,autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Thu Jun 2 09:08:42 2016 [-4604] info: spamd: connection from Mailserver [127.0.0.1]:64950 to port 783, fd 6
Thu Jun 2 09:08:42 2016 [-4604] info: spamd: processing message <cmu-lmtpd-3000-1464854862-2@ms7.hostvue.com> for (unknown):0
Thu Jun 2 09:08:45 2016 [-4604] info: spamd: clean message (0.9/3.0) for (unknown):0 in 3.6 seconds, 4598 bytes.
And add the time for the SURBL and DNSBL tests (you have set in HMS), and the time for the inline virus scanning, it takes several seconds before accepting/acknowledging receipt of your email.

Now, this is with Hmailserver but other mail servers may well have similar methods of operation (its standard stuff). It is, therefore, possible that your recipient emails servers could have similar delays before final acceptance of the email you are trying to deliver.

If you want to see the evidence, take a look at your SMTPC logs where is passes emails out. You will see significant time delays from starting the transaction to finishing them:

EG

[quote]"SMTPC" 3108 6195 "2016-06-01 17:06:56.798" "188.999.56.27" "RECEIVED: 220 mx27.antispamcloud.net ESMTP Exim 4.85-100829 Wed, 01 Jun 2016 18:06:57 +0200"
"SMTPC" 3108 6195 "2016-06-01 17:06:56.798" "188.999.56.27" "SENT: EHLO mydomain.net"
"SMTPC" 4768 6195 "2016-06-01 17:06:56.939" "188.999.56.27" "RECEIVED: 250-mx27.antispamcloud.net Hello mydomain.com [123.45.67.89][nl]250-SIZE[nl]250-8BITMIME[nl]250-STARTTLS[nl]250 HELP"
"SMTPC" 4768 6195 "2016-06-01 17:06:56.939" "188.999.56.27" "SENT: STARTTLS"
"SMTPC" 4892 6195 "2016-06-01 17:06:56.985" "188.999.56.27" "RECEIVED: 220 TLS go ahead"
"SMTPC" 3108 6195 "2016-06-01 17:06:57.313" "188.999.56.27" "SENT: EHLO mydomain.net"
"SMTPC" 3628 6195 "2016-06-01 17:06:57.360" "188.999.56.27" "RECEIVED: 250-mx27.antispamcloud.net Hello mydomain.com [123.45.67.89][nl]250-SIZE[nl]250-8BITMIME[nl]250 HELP"
"SMTPC" 3628 6195 "2016-06-01 17:06:57.360" "188.999.56.27" "SENT: MAIL FROM:<sylvester@mydomain.net>"
"SMTPC" 4768 6195 "2016-06-01 17:06:58.670" "188.999.56.27" "RECEIVED: 250 OK"
"SMTPC" 4768 6195 "2016-06-01 17:06:58.670" "188.999.56.27" "SENT: RCPT TO:<bobby@ford.net>"
"SMTPC" 712 6195 "2016-06-01 17:06:59.793" "188.999.56.27" "RECEIVED: 250 Accepted"
"SMTPC" 712 6195 "2016-06-01 17:06:59.793" "188.999.56.27" "SENT: DATA"
"SMTPC" 4768 6195 "2016-06-01 17:06:59.825" "188.999.56.27" "RECEIVED: 354 Enter message, ending with "." on a line by itself"
"SMTPC" 4768 6195 "2016-06-01 17:06:59.825" "188.999.56.27" "SENT: [nl]."
"SMTPC" 3108 6195 "2016-06-01 17:07:57.202" "188.999.56.27" "RECEIVED: 250 OK id=1b88fc-0000C4-IL"
"SMTPC" 3108 6195 "2016-06-01 17:07:57.202" "188.999.56.27" "SENT: QUIT"
"SMTPC" 2332 6195 "2016-06-01 17:07:57.248" "188.999.56.27" "RECEIVED: 221 mx27.antispamcloud.net closing connection"
[/quote]

61 SECONDS (thats 1 minute to deliver an email) with 58 seconds of it waiting for the receiving server to accept and acknowledge (after HMS has told it there is nothing more to send "SENT: [NL].").

Another example:

I have chosen to implement NOLISTING (anti-spam method) on my domain. So if you try to send an email to me it will hit a delay because it wont find a mailserver immediately, timeout, and then look for a backup mailserver (to where it will then be delivered). And this TIMEOUT value depends on the sending server (can be anything from 20 to 60 seconds or even more). Now, Im not sure but I think HMS timeouts at 30 seconds by default in such situations. Thats 30 seconds that delivery is delayed by in these situations.

In short: there is diddly squat you can do to increase the delivery time to each server. It is what it is.. Welcome to the world of email.
5.7 on test.
SpamassassinForWindows 3.4.0 spamd service
AV: Clamwin + Clamd service + sanesecurity defs : https://www.hmailserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=26829

Furball Zen
Normal user
Normal user
Posts: 116
Joined: 2009-04-23 00:42

Re: flashing emails Vs Distribution list

Post by Furball Zen » 2016-06-15 01:16

Not only this, but your ISP may scan each email to make sure youre not sending SPAM, most will scan when you have 50 recipients or more automatically. Just because you have a dedicated 300mb line says nothing, what is your upload speed? For example, my service is 5mb down and 600k up.

itsmesri
Normal user
Normal user
Posts: 59
Joined: 2014-11-07 08:30

Re: flashing emails Vs Distribution list

Post by itsmesri » 2016-06-29 23:27

I have Delivery threads 10. But always Number of open SMTP sessions shows 1 or 0. When I sending large number of emails through DL. They sit in the queue. I thought If we have Delivery thread 10 and number open sessions will help to send emails faster if you have large number. Is something I am not correct?


Image

User avatar
mattg
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 21195
Joined: 2007-06-14 05:12
Location: 'The Outback' Australia

Re: flashing emails Vs Distribution list

Post by mattg » 2016-06-30 00:15

I'm not certain, but I think those number shown in that screen grab are incoming connections, not outgoing SMTP.
Just 'cause I link to a page and say little else doesn't mean I am not being nice.
https://www.hmailserver.com/documentation

percepts
Senior user
Senior user
Posts: 5282
Joined: 2009-10-20 16:33
Location: Sceptred Isle

Re: flashing emails Vs Distribution list

Post by percepts » 2016-06-30 03:00

when you send to one of these DLs have you looked in the delivery queue as soon as you send to see what the next retry time is and the number of retries?
This should tell you if mail from DL has tried to send or is still in the queue because hmail has delayed sending by putting a future time on the send.

Sending mail via script in hmail always delays mail by 1 minute I think.
And what have you set in "settings/protocols/smtp/advanced tab/max recipients in batch" ?
And what have you set in "settings/protocols/smtp/advanced tab/maximum nuber of recipient hosts" ?

User avatar
jimimaseye
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8854
Joined: 2011-09-08 17:48

Re: flashing emails Vs Distribution list

Post by jimimaseye » 2016-06-30 10:21

Sending mail via script in hmail always delays mail by 1 minute I think.
FYI, just for clarity, there isn't a delay on scripted email sending (its processed immediately). However, there is a 1 minute delay when an email is forwarded by HMS rules or 'forwarding' function.
5.7 on test.
SpamassassinForWindows 3.4.0 spamd service
AV: Clamwin + Clamd service + sanesecurity defs : https://www.hmailserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=26829

itsmesri
Normal user
Normal user
Posts: 59
Joined: 2014-11-07 08:30

Re: flashing emails Vs Distribution list

Post by itsmesri » 2016-06-30 20:08

percepts wrote:when you send to one of these DLs have you looked in the delivery queue as soon as you send to see what the next retry time is and the number of retries?
This should tell you if mail from DL has tried to send or is still in the queue because hmail has delayed sending by putting a future time on the send.

Sending mail via script in hmail always delays mail by 1 minute I think.
And what have you set in "settings/protocols/smtp/advanced tab/max recipients in batch" ?
And what have you set in "settings/protocols/smtp/advanced tab/maximum nuber of recipient hosts" ?
max recipients in batch = 1000
maximum number of recipient hosts = 15

percepts
Senior user
Senior user
Posts: 5282
Joined: 2009-10-20 16:33
Location: Sceptred Isle

Re: flashing emails Vs Distribution list

Post by percepts » 2016-06-30 20:37

set max recipients in batch to 25

itsmesri
Normal user
Normal user
Posts: 59
Joined: 2014-11-07 08:30

Re: flashing emails Vs Distribution list

Post by itsmesri » 2016-10-03 01:31

My apology bugging on this..

Any recommendations are welcome. Like adding more servers or any other options. Our company planning to send email 4K to 5K one at time for marketing purpose or job posting purpose. We don't want stay emails day long on the server for sending.

I understand all your comments ... but just trying to find any other technical possibilities to increase sending SMPT speed (bulk email sending).

User avatar
mattg
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 21195
Joined: 2007-06-14 05:12
Location: 'The Outback' Australia

Re: flashing emails Vs Distribution list

Post by mattg » 2016-10-03 03:40

mattg wrote:No matter how fast you send send messages out, if I didn't want to receive it immediately, you wouldn't send it to me immediately...

The point is that it takes two end points to have communication, just because you are sending doesn't mean that anyone is listening
4000 to 5000 job advert emails smells like SPAM to me. Most servers will be in no hurry to accept such mail, and your insistence that it happen 'quicker' is saying 'I want to mass send this out and then disappear like any good spammer', making server admins more sceptical of your intentions, and less likely to help.

4000 to 5000 email is not a lot, and would normally all get delivered in the first day (if all recipients want to receive these emails)
Just 'cause I link to a page and say little else doesn't mean I am not being nice.
https://www.hmailserver.com/documentation

Post Reply