Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

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ravensorb
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Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ravensorb » 2009-09-22 12:47

Martin,

I just upgraded to 5.2.1 B361 (from 5.1.x), and now it seems that all messages are getting stuck somewhere between the incoming SMTP delivery queue and the actual mail box.

Example: I will send an email from gmail to my mail server, I can see in the log files that it arrived at the server in seconds however when I check my mailbox even after 20 min it still does not show up. If I stop/start the service (from the admin program), the message immediately shows up in my inbox.

Any idea what is going on?

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ^DooM^ » 2009-09-22 13:07

Are you running any anti spam, anti virus or anti malware software on your server?

Have you enabled SPF check?

How many DNSBL's are you using?

Have you enabled virus scanning in hMail?

Have you excluded the data directory from scanning by your realtime virus scanner?
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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ravensorb » 2009-09-22 14:17

Everything is identical to what is was prior to the upgrade -- no other changes were made.

I can verify that the record does make it into the server and into the database -- I can see it in the hm_messages table (below is the record in the database for the test message -- each line is a column)

------

9047506
13
136
m:\hMailServer\Data\eye-catcher.com\sanderson\12\{125AB665-99CF-449A-B75B-1ECAEBF9E78E}.eml
2
ravensorb@gmail.com
3027
0
1901-01-01 00:00:00.000
96
2009-09-22 08:12:01.000
1
9
031933

----

Note: This message does not show up via POP or IMAP until I do a stop/start of the server.

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ^DooM^ » 2009-09-22 14:20

Are you going to answer my questions or just tell me what you think i want to know?

Just because it was working previously doesn't mean that something else on your server hasn't changed as well as hMail. Anti virus definitions, AV updates, Windows updates etc etc. I also think that a stack of people would be on here complaining if it was a widespread issue don't you?
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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ravensorb » 2009-09-22 14:25

My thought is that something went wrong in my specific upgrade -- but I am not sure where to look. My gut feeling is that there is a flag in the database that is not being set or an in memory index that is not being updated.

Yes - I use ASSP
Yes - I have disabled ASSP and the issue still exists
No - I do not use greylisting
No - I do not use any of the other spam features in hMail
No - I do not use SPF
Yes - I do use Clam
Yes - I have disabled Clam and the issue still exists
No - I do not have any realtime virus scanners

Yes it does mean nothing else has changed :) I own the server and I am the only one that can log into it. I can verify that no patches were applied and that absolutely no other changes happened between stopping hMailServer 5.1.2, upgrade to 5.2.1, and starting hMailServer (total process took about 25 min include DB upgrade). As soon as the server was brought online the problem started.

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ^DooM^ » 2009-09-22 14:36

You disabled ASSP how? Did you allow email to go straight to hMail bypassing ASSP or did you just put ASSP in test mode and let all mail pass through ASSP?
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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ravensorb » 2009-09-22 14:42

Completely disabled -- stopped service, set ports for hMailserver back to defaults, restarted hMailServer.

So I understand your line of questioning, but I am curious about the why -- if the message is showing up in the hMailServer database on on the file system (and the eml file is valid -- no corrupted) plus the fact that a simple restart causes all pending messages to be delivered. Why all the questions about Spam Filters. By the time the message makes it to the filesystem (and database) it is long passed the blocks and filters.

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ^DooM^ » 2009-09-22 15:12

Process of elimination. If we rule them out completely there can be no doubt of the cause. You would not believe the amount of posts on this forum that have blamed hMail for these kinds of issues and 99% of the time turned out to be third party software interfering even though the person with the problem insists that nothing has changed and that it has to be an issue with hMail. So We start at the top and work our way down. I'm sorry if this process annoys you but past experiences dictate this is the best course of action to follow.

So we have eliminated ASSP completely now. Which Clam are you using? ClamWin or ClamAV? How did you disable them? Within hMail or did you disable their service? Have you enabled all logging?
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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ravensorb » 2009-09-22 15:12

My reason for the questions is that it might help me figure out where the problem is occurring.

As for clam -- I am using ClamAV installed as a service. To verify that was not the issue, I stopped the service and disabled the integration with hMailserver.

I have turned on all logging (including debug) and from what I can tell everything looks to be correct. There are no errors that I can see.

Question, do you know where hMailServer stores the information about what message go to what mailbox? Is it hm_message_metadata? If so, then something I noted is that this table is completely empty in my database (no records at all)

And thanks for your help!

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ravensorb » 2009-09-22 15:24

Question, I noticed that as of the upgrade it seems like every row in the hm_messages table has the column "messagelocked" set to 1, where all of the messages from before the upgrade have that column set to 0 -- might this be significant?

Update -- never mind, I was looking at too small of a sample set. Some are locked some are not (going back 5 days).

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ^DooM^ » 2009-09-22 15:30

That table is used if you use imap indexing with hMail. It is normal to be empty. If I remember correctly when email arrives to hMail it first enters the data directory into the queue then is processed and moved to the users directory. hMail stores this data in the hm_messages table.

there is nothing showing the hMails error log at all?

Not sure what that lock column is for to be honest. Checking mine I have a stack of locked rows. Most are however not locked.
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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ravensorb » 2009-09-22 15:48

Here is a line indicating that test message is actual delivered.

"APPLICATION" 5420 "2009-09-22 09:36:37.234" "SMTPDeliverer - Message 9049553: Delivering message from ravensorb@gmail.com to sanderson@eye-catcher.com. File: m:\hMailServer\Data\{8B6CF675-338D-4456-A030-7690237471EB}.eml"

Here is a line indicating that the message is actually saved to my account folder

"DEBUG" 5420 "2009-09-22 09:36:37.562" "Saving message: m:\hMailServer\Data\eye-catcher.com\sanderson\8B\{8B6CF675-338D-4456-A030-7690237471EB}.eml"

As for the error log -- I actually do not have one as of yet for today (I do for yesterday but there is nothing odd in it -- just DNS resolve errors).

I still cannot seem to find a way to relate a single message id to a single user inbox.

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ^DooM^ » 2009-09-22 16:26

Can you verify at what point (time wise) the server stops responding roughly from your emails perhaps setup a cron job to send yourself an email every 5 minutes until it stops then check the logs to find out which email was the last one sent through that hMail seems to be choking on (that's not sent by your cron), zip it up and attach it to a post?
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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ravensorb » 2009-09-22 17:17

Interesting question.

So here is what I have found.

If I start sending messages just before stopping the server (and keep sending messages for at least 10 minutes) everything seems to stabilize and work.

Without doing this, the server seems to stop working right after the first check for new mail.

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ^DooM^ » 2009-09-22 17:27

:shock: That doesn't make any sense. Keep it running for now and see if it's not just a coincidence.
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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ravensorb » 2009-09-23 14:29

I have some more information -- it seems this problem is existing for every mailbox on the server and the only way to fix it is to "spam" the folder just as the server is starting up.

This problem is getting critical -- I now have about 50 users reporting the issue.

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ravensorb » 2009-09-23 16:03

Another thing that I noticed -- after leaving the hAdmin tool open for more than 6 or 7 hours, when I go to "stop" the server, I get either an exception or it just hangs.

I'll post more next time it happens.

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by DeanoX » 2009-09-23 16:12

What database is being used?

You mentioned you updated the DB, from what version to what version? Any errors in the database logs?

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ravensorb » 2009-09-23 16:28

SQL 2005 with latest SP.

And no, the database upgrade with zero errors. Right now i am tempted to upgrade to 5.3 just to see if that fixes the issue.

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ravensorb » 2009-09-23 16:48

Any chance you know how to get a hold of Martin? It would be great if he could point me in a direction to try and figure this out. Maybe what tables or indexes to look at?

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ravensorb » 2009-09-23 17:43

Getting even more interesting. remember that "spam" set of emails I sent to my account yesterday? Now every time I check my email via POP3 I get one of those emails (every time it is the same email -- even if I delete it).

[Edit] And when I restart the server -- it decides to pick a different message to deliver over and over and over.

However that email is not showing up via IMAP.

I really need some help here -- I cannot afford to wipe and start fresh.

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ^DooM^ » 2009-09-23 18:41

Something seems very wrong with your install. Something I have never seen at all before. My suggestion (I know you don't want to do it) would be to make a complete backup of all data and SQL entries, uninstall hMail completely the re-install fresh and import the backup. Other than that I am out of Ideas. You could try sending Martin a PM but there is no guarantee he will answer it any quicker, in my experience he answers PM's after he has checked the forum and only if he chooses to.
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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ravensorb » 2009-09-23 18:46

Can you point me to a list of steps for importing the backup?

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ravensorb » 2009-09-23 19:10

In the upgrade notes there is the following

When upgrading to hMailServer 5.2, message UID's will be regenerated. If your email client has connected information to the specific UID's, this information may be lost. For example, some email clients store flag information such as Important and Follow up per message UID, which means that these flags may be lost during an upgrade to 5.2.

I am wondering if something went wrong here?

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ^DooM^ » 2009-09-23 19:28

It's a possibility for sure but I don't see how that helps you fix the issue?
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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ravensorb » 2009-09-23 19:34

So any thoughts or posts I can look at for the import process?

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by DeanoX » 2009-09-23 19:51

Do you have a complete backup of hmail and your MS SQL database prior to the upgrade?

Backup and restore info can be found here, http://www.hmailserver.com/documentatio ... up_restore

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ravensorb » 2009-09-23 19:58

Yes, I know :)

But if you look there nothing written about a restore -- only backup.

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ^DooM^ » 2009-09-23 20:01

Restore would be copy the data directory back, import the database the opposite way you exported it ;) I assume your running MSSQL which I can't help you with. I only use MySQL. there are lots of posts on the forum about how to backup and restore.
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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ravensorb » 2009-09-23 20:04

Ok :)

The problem with that is it would be a full SQL restore of the backed up data -- which means it would overwrite the newly created data. This would most likely mean that the problem would come right back.

My guess would be that to accomplish what you are suggesting (which is a good idea), I would need to know exactly which tables need to have data imported and which columns are auto-generated and which are not -- this would allow me to create an import routine using something like Microsoft DTS to bring back just the needed data and let hMailServer take care of the rest.

Either that, or I would need to write a small program/script that would go through the data folder and create the correct records in the database (basically import a file system into the hMailServer database).

But all of that is a guess...

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ravensorb » 2009-09-23 20:06

^DooM^ wrote:Restore would be copy the data directory back, import the database the opposite way you exported it ;) I assume your running MSSQL which I can't help you with. I only use MySQL. there are lots of posts on the forum about how to backup and restore.
Can you point me to a few of the better ones -- maybe I can figured out what I need to do from them.

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by martin » 2009-09-23 20:08

How many delivery threads have you configured hMailServer to use?
Did you restart the hMailServer service after you disabled the ClamWin integration?

> Here is a line indicating that the message is actually saved to my account folder

So what happens after this? What do you see in the log when you try to access this mailbox?

> If I start sending messages just before stopping the server (and keep sending messages for at least 10 minutes) everything seems to stabilize and work.

What happens after this? It stabilizes and works fine but then stops at some later point?

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ravensorb » 2009-09-23 20:12

martin wrote:How many delivery threads have you configured hMailServer to use?
Did you restart the hMailServer service after you disabled the ClamWin integration?

> Here is a line indicating that the message is actually saved to my account folder

So what happens after this? What do you see in the log when you try to access this mailbox?

> If I start sending messages just before stopping the server (and keep sending messages for at least 10 minutes) everything seems to stabilize and work.

What happens after this? It stabilizes and works fine but then stops at some later point?
Martin, thanks for responding!

1) Yes, I did restore the hMailServer service (from the services control panel) after disabling ClamAv (same for when I stopped ASSP)

2) For the log file, it looks to be a normal check via POP with a message count that is not incremented

3) I thought it stabilized, but it didn't. Right now the only account that is working (and partially at that) is mine. All other users do not get any new mail until I do a stop/start, then anything in the queue seems to be flushed immediately -- then after their first check, they do not getting anything else until I do another Stop/Start

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by martin » 2009-09-23 20:14

Is it possible for me to access the server remotely, using remote desktop connection?

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ravensorb » 2009-09-23 20:16

Sure, I can set that up.

Any chance you have skype? If so, we can set up a quick chat session and I'll get you a user name/password.

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by martin » 2009-09-23 20:20

My Skype connection seems to be down. Send the details in a private message here.

Would appreciate if you do it right away. It's getting late here...

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ravensorb » 2009-09-23 20:29

martin wrote:My Skype connection seems to be down. Send the details in a private message here.

Would appreciate if you do it right away. It's getting late here...
PM Sent -- and thanks again for the help...

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by martin » 2009-09-23 22:08

There was something fishy in the database. hMailServer keeps track of the last received message for every IMAP folder. This is stored in the foldermessageuid column in the hm_imapfolders table. For some unknown reason, a lot of message had been received but this value had not been updated. Will see if I can figure out what caused the problem. (Workaround when it happens is to increase the foldermessageuid for all IMAP folders with 10000 or so (depending on how far of the counter is) so that new messages receive correct UID's).

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ravensorb » 2009-09-24 03:30

Remember the duplicate messages that kept being downloading? well it is starting to happen to more and more messages. Now I am getting "spammed" by a message with this subject

Topic reply notification - "Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)"

How's that for irony :)

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by entropicsinkhole » 2009-09-24 18:39

I might be having the same problem as ravensorb, except my hmailserver only freezes once or twice a day at the moment. My issue is posted here: http://www.hmailserver.com/forum/viewto ... .2.1+queue.

Did the database foldermessageuid workaround solve the problem?

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by martin » 2009-09-24 19:22

Why do you think you may be having the same proem? The problem descriptions aren't at all the same?
The error in this thread had nothing to do with a queue fill up.

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Except right after restart)

Post by ravensorb » 2009-09-26 04:23

Martin,

I do not think this duplicate message issue is the result of an outlook bug. The reason being is that I am getting the duplicate messages via IMAP on my iPhone and in Thunderbird (both POP3 and IMAP). I think there is still something weird happening with the message ids that are being generated.

As it stands I am now up to 200 copies of the notification of an update to this thread that was sent out on Friday.

What else can we look at to try to figure out what is going on??

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by martin » 2009-09-26 11:22

ravensorb,
This time it seems like it was something completely different. Looks like the PHPBB (forum queue) on this site has become corrupted here and you receive updates every x minute even though nothing has changed. Have seen this once before and apparently that is a known problem in phpbb. I've manually deleted the queue now so hopefully the problem should go away.

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by ravensorb » 2009-09-28 23:44

Ok, glad it was something simpler :)

Looks like the mail server has stabilized at this point. The only issue I am running into now is that after leaving hMailAdmin open for more than 8 hours I get the following when I click on something

The server threw an exception. (Exception from HRESULT: 0x80010105 (RPC_E_SERVERFAULT))

ExceptionType: COMException
HelpLine:
Message: The server threw an exception. (Exception from HRESULT: 0x80010105 (RPC_E_SERVERFAULT))
Source: Interop.hMailServer
StackTrace: at hMailServer.IInterfaceApplication.Stop()
at hMailServer.Administrator.ucStatus.buttonStartStop_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnClick(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnClick(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mevent)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ButtonBase.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Button.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)
TargetSite: Void Stop()

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after restart)

Post by martin » 2009-09-29 18:25

In this specific log, you appeared to click the Stop button. Do you get the same if you click on other things? Such as trying to open up a new account?

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Re: Emails not making it to Mailbox (Expect right after rest

Post by alfadog67 » 2011-06-21 19:49

A search for my problem led me to this post.

I realize that I'm about 2 years late on this, but in the interest of knowledge propagation, I'll share my solution in this thread.

I was having a similar problem... all of the e-mails I was sending were stacking up in the "Data" folder and not being delivered to the recipient (neither remote or local), and then I slapped myself in the forehead when I discovered that I had forgotten to open port 25 on my router for my server's LAN IP address. :oops:

Late as always,
Dan

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