Version 5 Closed Source

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Geovanni
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Version 5 Closed Source

Post by Geovanni » 2008-11-20 20:31

Is Version 5 not open source anymore?

Open source makes me feel better about using it. I'm worried that you will begin to charge $$$ soon...

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martin
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Re: Version 5 Closed Source

Post by martin » 2008-11-20 20:34

>Is Version 5 not open source anymore?

Correct. Details can be found here:
http://www.hmailserver.com/forum/viewto ... f=8&t=9736

Why are you worried? Is $$$ the only reason? Are you using open source software because it's free in terms of money?

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Re: Version 5 Closed Source

Post by Geovanni » 2008-11-20 22:04

Having to pay means evaluating like 50 email server softwares. Open source means evaluating just a couple which this one is probably the best, for Windows.

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Re: Version 5 Closed Source

Post by martin » 2008-11-20 22:21

So what you like with open source is that you have less options choose from? That's one argument I don't fully agree about - I thought being able to choose between competitive products and not being limited to 1 or 2 was something positive. :) Also, your assumption is that open source software is automatically better than closed source or commercial software. While there's plenty examples of that, I'm not sure on can say that it's always the case.

Anyway, hMailServer 5 is free in terms of money. hMailServer 5 is just a new version of hMailServer. If hMailServer 4 has worked for you, so will hMailServer 5.

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Re: Version 5 Closed Source

Post by Geovanni » 2008-11-21 03:14

Having many options is positive just that if hMailServer becomes a pay product it needs to compete with others. I am looking at hMailServer now only because it is open source and free and Windows. I understand the reasons behind closed source but then the next step is charging $$$. There are current mature mailservers that are very good with integrated webmail that are inexpensive. What hMailServer will cost in the future is unknown. So it may be better to start off with a mature product that has a KNOWN inexpensive price rather than an unknown future cost....

You will say that the other mailserver's future cost is unknown but that can be extrapolated by the past and exisiting cost.

If you committed to open source but charged for support that would be way better!! like MySQL...

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Re: Version 5 Closed Source

Post by mattg » 2008-11-21 04:00

I understand Ver 4 will remain open sourced, it is certainly currently available. You will just have to do your own maintenence, as it will no longer be supported.

I (and many others) currently use hMailserver Ver 4 in production environments. I could use one of a multitude of other servers, many open source and free as in beer, but seriously, when I evaluated, price wasn't as important as functionality. hMailserver 4 works very well.
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Re: Version 5 Closed Source

Post by black zero » 2008-11-21 08:35

I am using version 5 and it's working fine. If anything bad happens, all I need to do is to knock Martin's door and scream the hell outta him. ;)

And if he ever decides to make hmailserver shareware, I'll be the first one who stab him. ^^

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Re: Version 5 Closed Source

Post by ^DooM^ » 2008-11-21 10:39

V5 is closed source and will remain free for the foreseeable future. If you don't like it then please feel free to choose one of the other multitude of KNOWN mailservers out there that will fit your needs.
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Re: Version 5 Closed Source

Post by Geovanni » 2008-11-21 17:47

Sounds like there needs to be a new open source Windows based mail server. There area few out there but they need some work.

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Re: Version 5 Closed Source

Post by martin » 2008-11-21 18:04

Not to start a war or anything, but I don't agree with much of what you say. :)

> Having many options is positive just that if hMailServer becomes a pay product it needs to compete with others.

I currently have no plans turning hMailServer into a so-called "pay product".

> it needs to compete with others.

hMailServer already competes with other email servers. Any company setting up an email server for production usage won't just look at "free"-tag when other email servers costs $99. As you say yourself, there are other mail servers which are inexpensive.

> So it may be better to start off with a mature product that has a KNOWN inexpensive price rather than an unknown future cost....

That argument doesn't hold. All commercial products have a unknown future cost unless you've signed an agreement with the supplier. There are examples of "commercial" applications where the price has gone up a lot and made the users upset.

> I understand the reasons behind closed source but then the next step is charging $$$.

That doesn't really hold either. There's no automatic property of free software which makes it cost money later on. Any software can go from any licensing model to any other licensing model at any time, if the owners and copyright holders of it feel that it's good idea. There's examples of open source projects which have been turned into commercial, there's examples of commercial software going open source. There's plenty examples of open source software who have gone into a non-existent licensing model simply by dying. There's plenty examples of free software which have been turned into open source. There's examples of free software which have stayed free. It's the copyright holders and owners which determines the future of a software product - not the current license model. hMailServer 6 for example may be open source if I feel that it's the right thing to do. I've being doing open source development for 4 years - it's not like I'm against it..

Also, if your arguments would make sense, they would invalidate themselves a bit. You're saying that free software will sooner or later cost money. hMailServer 4 turned from open source to free software. Any software can do this. Which means that the next version of any open source software you use can cost money in theory. Which is the same reason you have for not wanting to use hMailServer because it's free.

I feel it would be stupid to give up hMailServer due to it being closed source. You haven't contributed to the source code yourself so it's not like something will change for you with hMailServer 5 being closed-source. I guess it's closer to the opposite since I will work close to full time on hMailServer 5 soon. Which means that progress will be faster than before.

Anyway, if you want to use open source, XMailServer is an alternative. Or you can just continue to use hMailServer 4 which will obviously remain open source. Don't forget to switch to Linux or some other open source system while on it. :)

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Re: Version 5 Closed Source

Post by Geovanni » 2008-11-21 18:30

Uhm, I'm just going by my experience. Certainly you can find examples of software going through all sorts of changes.

From what I've seen with this type of software, in this situation, I feel that you will be charging within a period of time perhaps a year or two.

What can I say? I have argued these things before and I've been developing and evaluating software for too long to go against my gut and arguing is not something that I really want to do I could spend my time taking a piece of open source software and working on it.

I'll say it once again - personally I think hMailServer would be way better off remaining opensource and then you charge for things like support, consulting, etc.. Charging for basic addons sucks. Going closed source will close doors of opportunity becuase - in your situation at this time you are on the top. You have the best open source windows based email server software and you are going to make yourself go from number 1 to number 99 and give up your unique opportunity that you have deservedly created though hard work. You must realize your position at this time.

It's not my place to try to convince you and you have your own destiny in your hands. But I am just a spectator on this but believe me a very seasoned one.

John

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Re: Version 5 Closed Source

Post by martin » 2008-11-21 18:40

From what I've seen with this type of software, in this situation, I feel that you will be charging within a period of time perhaps a year or two.
I've heard that there's a million dollar price to the first person who proves his abilities to foresee the future in cases where the future can't be predicted using the science we rely on today. :) (kidding, i understand what you mean)
in your situation at this time you are on the top.
Maybe maybe if you define "top" as "open source email server for windows with most users". That's not the goal for me, which means it's not my "top".

The goal for me is to make the best software in the area. Lots of users are nice but it's far from the top priority to me. The number of users may be a way of measure the quality of the software, but if the users are using the software because it's open source, I would say it's not a very good way to measure it (since those users value the licensing model and not the actual software).

If I just wanted "most users" I may have spent some time making some kind of marketing of this software for example, instead of putting the effort in the code. Because I've heard you can get users to use crap with the right marketing. Lots of users doesn't automatically make the software better or the existing user base more satisfied. And so on. :)

Thanks for your opinion though.

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Re: Version 5 Closed Source

Post by martin » 2008-11-21 18:49

I will start to offer commercial support for hMailServer soon. If I feel that I can make a living of that, I may convert hMailServer to open source again. I quit my day time job to work full time on hMailServer (as you may have read in the other thread). I'm not a very greedy guy, but I didn't want to invest one year of my own time into something which someone then just takes and resells to their customers.

I'm not closing any doors of the room I'm in..

If hMailServer became open source again, you agree that you would be wrong, right? :)

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Re: Version 5 Closed Source

Post by Geovanni » 2008-11-21 19:02

May people predict non-intuitivly obvious outcomes. Like stocks or other complex systems. My prediction is just from experience.

There is a huge difference between being "free" and "open source". "Free" really scares people as they sense a trap. Nothing is free, really, as the saying goes.

"Top" is probably a bad word to use as a desription. It's more of a unique position that the software is in. Basically almost no open source Windows email servers. It's true though one company could open source their commercial product in one fell swoop....

Also we all have to make a living and many times closed source is the way to do it...

So don't listen to me :)

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Re: Version 5 Closed Source

Post by black zero » 2008-11-22 05:04

If hMailServer became open source again, you agree that you would be wrong, right? :)

I'll post a permanent link for hmailserver along with your logo or banner (if there's any) on my goddamn blog if that happened.

FYI, this is a short review for hMail http://eternalblackzero.blogspot.com/20 ... ow-to.html

Imma post longer review too.

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