Help making a tutorial for Squirrelmail, PHP, etc.

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jcmca
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Help making a tutorial for Squirrelmail, PHP, etc.

Post by jcmca » 2007-12-05 18:43

I have recently installed and started using hMailserver, and have thusfar enjoyed it a lot.

I also wanted to install and make Squirrelmail available to my users, and went throught the posts looking for help in that regard. There are quite a few posts from other users seeking assistance on this subject and all things related to it, and most of the replies from the long time users on this forum dismiss the help requests out of hand telling the person needing help to either post on the Squirrel forum, or the PHP forum, or the Apache forum, etc.

I am sure that there are many users that use this forum who have spent frustrating amounts of time and effort reading through badly concocted documentation at both Squirrel, PHP, etc, and eventually given up in disgust.

Seeing as this has been a fairly regular request, and the response from this community has not been that helpful, or consistant, I would like to suggest that we combine our communal knowledge in this regard, and add a reasonably comprehensive guide to the forum / hMailserver website that will change this aspect of using hMailserver from a nightmare to something accomplishable by people who aren't IT gurus.

In my humble opinion, this will be way more productive, and add to the image of hMailserver rather than the present attitude of sniping at new users and thus potentially driving them away from hMailserver.

If anyone has any interest in helping by adding their experiences and solutions, please email me at jcmca1@yahoo.com, and I will be glad to do the work in putting a guide together.

Many thanks!
John

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hms_squirrelmail

Post by mattg » 2007-12-06 02:47

I think that you are being a bit unfair.
The people here are nice, rarely is anyone flamed for asking even the silliest of inane questions.

Try a search for 'hms_squirrelmail' on this forum. Start with this topic http://www.hmailserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1657

lots of great information, freely provided, despite this being a forum for the product hmailserver which doesn't require Apache, PHP or Squirrelmail.

Good luck.

Matt

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Re: hms_squirrelmail

Post by at » 2008-02-12 10:24

mattg wrote:I think that you are being a bit unfair.
The people here are nice, rarely is anyone flamed for asking even the silliest of inane questions.

Try a search for 'hms_squirrelmail' on this forum. Start with this topic http://www.hmailserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1657

lots of great information, freely provided, despite this being a forum for the product hmailserver which doesn't require Apache, PHP or Squirrelmail.

Good luck.

Matt
People that installs HMS needs a Webmail.

Here the Recommended webmail is SquirrelMail.

I think HMS is a good application for the Win/IIS world but as it does with a pre-built MySql it could have webmail included and, as a Windows program, the natural option would be an asp.net webmail like "OSAN Webmail" and then you could say: "HMS doesn't require apache, php or squirrelmail".
The question here is an official HMS support to "OSAN Webmail" and at short time to have webmail included.

Thanks
AT

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Post by ^DooM^ » 2008-02-12 11:59

This has been discussed a few times. hMail will not for the foreseeable future come bundled with any webmail client.

Also Matt is correct when he says this forum is for hMailServer not squirrelmail/roundcube etc. Help is offered to people occasionally especially if they have done the grunt work and are stuck at the final stages etc. You also do not need to be a guru to setup squirrelmail. 90% of the time people just cannot be bothered to read the installation documents. I see it on here almost daily where people have come on and asked a question that was answered in the very first section of the docs. I can honestly say I will help out most people that have bothered to help themselves first.

Also not everyone requires Webmail and you can guarantee that if SM was bundled with hMail someone else would moan and want Roundcube and then someone else would Moan and want OSAN. Should hMail bundle all three? What happens when any third party updates their software due to a security issue. That means Martin then has to keep a close eye on all of the software and update hMail because of someone else's work thus making more work for him.

This is the hMailServer forum not the hMailSquirrelMailApacheOSANRoundcubeAbyss forum.

It is only due to the kind nature of a lot of people on here that questions not related to hMail are even acknowledged. Would you expect microsoft to spend their time supporting someones problem with an apple mac?

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webmail

Post by at » 2008-02-12 13:02

^DooM^ wrote:This has been discussed a few times. hMail will not for the foreseeable future come bundled with any webmail client.
I don't see why not.
It could be bundled with one and have an option to install another as the MySql has an option MSSQL.
^DooM^ wrote: Also Matt is correct when he says this forum is for hMailServer not squirrelmail/roundcube etc. Help is offered to people occasionally especially if they have done the grunt work and are stuck at the final stages etc. You also do not need to be a guru to setup squirrelmail. 90% of the time people just cannot be bothered to read the installation documents. I see it on here almost daily where people have come on and asked a question that was answered in the very first section of the docs. I can honestly say I will help out most people that have bothered to help themselves first.
As I have said before, the squirrelmail site is organized in a linux/apache/ point of view. If I was thinking about using Linux I would use perahps Postfix but I like Win/IIS and I think HMailServer is a good product and I like it. When People ask questions about webmail programs here, in this Forum, that means that they like HMailServer so simple as that.
^DooM^ wrote: Also not everyone requires Webmail and you can guarantee that if SM was bundled with hMail someone else would moan and want Roundcube and then someone else would Moan and want OSAN. Should hMail bundle all three? What happens when any third party updates their software due to a security issue. That means Martin then has to keep a close eye on all of the software and update hMail because of someone else's work thus making more work for him.
People that don't want to use MySQL can change to MSSQL.
With Webmail could be the same. With a bundled webmail there would be an official support to that one.
^DooM^ wrote: This is the hMailServer forum not the hMailSquirrelMailApacheOSANRoundcubeAbyss forum.
That's not the question. We all Know this is the HMailServer Forum support.
The question is:
Do you understand what that outside questions means?
^DooM^ wrote: It is only due to the kind nature of a lot of people on here that questions not related to hMail are even acknowledged.
I think so. People here try to help and not only about HMailServer questions.
^DooM^ wrote: Would you expect microsoft to spend their time supporting someones problem with an apple mac?
If the mac problem has to do with Microsoft Office they will.

What do you say about Microsoft spend a lot of time with Zend to develop a better integration of PHP with IIS using FastCGI ?

And about Microsoft spend a lot of time with Novell / Suse-Linux ?

They are all connected... as HMailServer with Windows and WebMail.

Thanks
AT

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Re: webmail

Post by ^DooM^ » 2008-02-12 14:44

at wrote:
^DooM^ wrote:This has been discussed a few times. hMail will not for the foreseeable future come bundled with any webmail client.
I don't see why not.
It could be bundled with one and have an option to install another as the MySql has an option MSSQL.
This means more work for Martin and I for one would rather he spent his time working on hMail core rather than wasting time adding a webmail package and branching hMail into different options.
at wrote:As I have said before, the squirrelmail site is organized in a linux/apache/ point of view. If I was thinking about using Linux I would use perahps Postfix but I like Win/IIS and I think HMailServer is a good product and I like it. When People ask questions about webmail programs here, in this Forum, that means that they like HMailServer so simple as that.
I like Roundcube over squirrelmail but I goto the Roundcube forum for help I do not ask here because hMail has nothing to do with Roundcube just as it has nothing to do with SquirrelMail, that is the simple fact.
at wrote:People that don't want to use MySQL can change to MSSQL.
With Webmail could be the same. With a bundled webmail there would be an official support to that one.
Yet again this requires more work for the developer which could be spent better on making hMail better rather than supporting someone elses product.
at wrote:
^DooM^ wrote: This is the hMailServer forum not the hMailSquirrelMailApacheOSANRoundcubeAbyss forum.
That's not the question. We all Know this is the HMailServer Forum support.
The question is:
Do you understand what that outside questions means?
I see your point that supporting a webmail client would make hMail more viable to some users and if you feel so strongly about this feel free to take V4.4, bundle PHP,Apache,SQL and a webmail, setup a website with a forum and support it. After all it is not your time you are asking for here it is Martins.
at wrote:I think so. People here try to help and not only about HMailServer questions.
Yes they do and that is a good thing but once you start down a route supporting a product then you have to stick with it and it will be always expected. Again your asking for someone else to use their time to support a product that has nothing to do with them. It's not your time you are asking for here.
at wrote:
^DooM^ wrote: Would you expect microsoft to spend their time supporting someones problem with an apple mac?
If the mac problem has to do with Microsoft Office they will.

What do you say about Microsoft spend a lot of time with Zend to develop a better integration of PHP with IIS using FastCGI ?

And about Microsoft spend a lot of time with Novell / Suse-Linux ?

They are all connected... as HMailServer with Windows and WebMail.

Thanks
AT
This is semantics the point I was trying to make is still valid.

I will again make the point that it is not your time you are asking for, You can walk away from this at any time, if Martin add's this then he will have to use his time to keep someone elses product updated within hMail.

If you want to bundle all of the software required to make a single package then feel free to do so and support it with your own time.

Cheers!
If at first you don't succeed, bomb disposal probably isn't for you! ヅ

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Post by indiannic » 2008-02-12 17:49

hi

this is an opensource mailserver and martin is doing a great job and a big favor to all of us with this excellent work

as "doom" said and i totally agree that it makes perfect logical sense that martin works on the core mail server functionality rather than focus on the webmail part.

howvever i also agree with "at" -- i would like to see a perfect documentation for setting up squirrelmail (if not for roundcube and others) since this is required by most people who use hmailserver in a webhosting enviroment. --- i know that people say that this is not a "squirrelmail forum" etc but if several people are going to greatly benefit by a small piece of documentation .. then why not ... ?

i personally have had very puzzling situations with squirrelmail though i have resolved all of them now and have a perfectly working environment on both windows 2000 and 2003 servers.

setting squirrelmail on linux was very very simple but on windows it created several problems for me.

A lot of time has been wasted unessarily. for example i was using php.exe on php 4 on windows. on php 4 i simply had to php.ini in the c:\php directory and php used to pick that up and it worked easily.

with php 5 i tried to use php-cgi.exe and it simply would not work. i had to php.ini in c:\windows or winnt directory. and every time i changed php.ini i had to restart the webserver. i finally found that with a simple registry entry i could direct php to use the php.ini placed in the php directory itself. also enviroment variable path had to declared etc etc....

note that figuring all of the above involved several wasted hours of experimentation

i definitely dont want others to go thru the same if it can be avoided

all of us can put together a good document which can be posted by martin as a part of the docs ... as a one time solution which save a lot of avoidable questions on squirrelmail installations.

all comments are welcome.

rajesh

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Post by ^DooM^ » 2008-02-12 21:00

A document with howto's in easy step by step instructions to get SquirrelMail to work in a windows environment using hMail is a great idea and one I am not adverse to at all. Bundling a webmail solution with hMail though I am :)

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Post by martin » 2008-02-12 22:06

I don't mind HOWTO's for other products either. Feel free to write one. :)

However, keep in mind that it may have negative effects in the long term. Generally speaking - If you have two products, Product A and Product B and the documentation and usability in Product B is insufficient, the best way to proceed is to discuss the issue with the authors of Product B. If they don't care about your problem, choose another product. Going to authors of Product A and ask them to create documentation for Product B has several problems. One example is that it will not make the authors of Product B aware of the problems their users experience. This will likely have the long term effect that quality of Product B decreases. Example: If users have some problem in hMailServer and they come to me asking the same question over and over again, I will try to modify the behavior in hMailServer to make it easier to understand or prevent others from doing the same error (which increases quality). If people don't come to me with their problems in hMailServer, and instead go ask someone else, there's no way for me to know that it's a problem and won't improve it. Since I've been working years with hMailServer, I suck at determening what users considers to be easy or hard to understand unless they provide me with feedback. Another example: If people talk to the authors of SquirrelMail and complain about the need to install Perl even though Perl is only needed for configuration, perhaps the authors of SquirrelMail will modify their software to use PHP instead (I'm not sure if Perl is still needed when config'ing SM.).

So to make the most of it, I suggest you post it at the SquirrelMail site when you're done and we can create a link from here. This way any user of SquirrelMail can benefit from it - not just the hMailServer users. As far as I know, a document on how to set up and install SquirrelMail doesn't have to be hMailServer specific. You don't need to do any hMailServer specific config when setting up SquirrelMail.

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Post by at » 2008-02-12 23:45

About what ^DooM^ wrote I have read it carefully and I must say I still think the same.

If Martin is developing HMAILSERVER and Jeinhor is developing OSANWebMail who says that working togehther sharing Knowledge means more work for Martin with the OSANWebMail?

About squirrelmail I think that here, the windows people can have more support that in the linux squirrelmail site and HMS is an windows application. But as I said before an asp.net webamil makes more sense for a Windows user.

I agree with Indiannic about good documentation.
I have Win2003/IIS6/FastCgi/PHP5 and my first option was squirrelmail as recommend here but my idea is that the people at squirrelmail don't care about windows users.
So I think Martin is right.
If squirrelmail don't want to help windows people with good documentation we must choose another product and for me as an Windows user, today, the natural option is an asp.net application as OsanWebMail.

Martin, a great job and a good Mail Server.

Thanks
AT

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Post by ^DooM^ » 2008-02-13 02:44

Well I for one do not use asp. I use PHP so therein lies a problem for me. Don't get me wrong here I see your point and it is a valid one I personally do not agree with it though. We will just have to agree to disagree on this one :)

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Re: hms_squirrelmail

Post by mattg » 2008-02-13 04:31

at wrote:People that installs HMS needs a Webmail.
Not true. HMS works perfectly well without any webmail.
at wrote:Here the Recommended webmail is SquirrelMail.
Again, not true. This is just one recommendation.
at wrote:I think HMS is a good application for the Win/IIS world but as it does with a pre-built MySql it could have webmail included and, as a Windows program, the natural option would be an asp.net webmail like "OSAN Webmail" and then you could say: "HMS doesn't require apache, php or squirrelmail".
I can say 'HMS doesn't require apache, php or squirrelmail' now. There is no need for any of Apache, PHP or Squirrelmail to make HMS functional as a mailserver.
at wrote:The question here is an official HMS support to "OSAN Webmail" and at short time to have webmail included.
As Doom says, not everyone likes ASP, not everyone needs webmail. The biggest issue I see with ASP is that IIS when on a windows XP machine only supports 10 concurrent connections, Apache doesn't have this limitation on XP. ASP is really only of great value when installed on a Server OS (like Windows Server 2003) in my view.

Matt

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Re: webmail

Post by dzekas » 2008-02-13 21:29

at wrote:About squirrelmail I think that here, the windows people can have more support that in the linux squirrelmail site and HMS is an windows application.
SquirrelMail is not linux application. It is written in PHP and works on any platform that supports PHP. Ask same SquirrelMail question here and on SquirrelMail mailing list and you might get answers from same people. Here you also get reminder that you are using wrong support channel.

If you want to improve SquirrelMail docs on Windows, collect all bits of information in SquirrelMail wiki and ask project admins to move it to static documentation.

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Post by plobby » 2008-02-19 04:49

Since squirrelmail doesnt have any forums, I figured I could make them.

http://www.squirrelmailforum.com

Still in the works, but its a start.

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Post by mattg » 2008-02-19 05:11

plobby wrote:Since squirrelmail doesnt have any forums, I figured I could make them.

http://www.squirrelmailforum.com

Still in the works, but its a start.
Looks like a good start, but did you know about these

http://www.nabble.com/SquirrelMail-f4372.html

http://sqmail.org/forums/index.php

There are many others that don't look official, or are a small part of a another forum, eg IT support forums. I see that yours says it is the 'Official Squirrel Mail Forums'. :wink:

Matt

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Post by plobby » 2008-02-19 05:18

mattg wrote:
plobby wrote:Since squirrelmail doesnt have any forums, I figured I could make them.

http://www.squirrelmailforum.com

Still in the works, but its a start.
Looks like a good start, but did you know about these

http://www.nabble.com/SquirrelMail-f4372.html

http://sqmail.org/forums/index.php

There are many others that don't look official, or are a small part of a another forum, eg IT support forums. I see that yours says it is the 'Official Squirrel Mail Forums'. :wink:

Matt
I saw nabble and thought it looked very messy :p But i didnt see the SQmail one.

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Post by mattg » 2008-02-19 05:37

Nabble is very messy, just a dog's breakfast really

I never found much help wrt Squirrelmail on any forum except this one. When I google very specific errors or issues I tend to keep coming back to this forum. :D
As I said higher up this thread the 'hms_squirrelmail' I found to be the most help of all.

But that's just me.

I'll keep an eye on your forum too if I get time...

Matt

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Post by plobby » 2008-02-19 05:48

I noticed that as well, whenever i have a problem with squirrelmail it always seems to take me back here. Maybe the forum I made can help out a bit. I am going to start making a tutorial here soon. Hopefully pretty in-depth.

I didnt have much trouble getting it to work at all, but it did take a little bit of reading the wiki which is mostly linux support, which did not help.

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Post by dzekas » 2008-02-19 07:24

mattg wrote:I never found much help wrt Squirrelmail on any forum except this one. When I google very specific errors or issues I tend to keep coming back to this forum. :D
As I said higher up this thread the 'hms_squirrelmail' I found to be the most help of all.
Don't use hmailserver keyword, if you search for specific errors unrelated to hmailserver.

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Post by mattg » 2008-02-19 07:28

dzekas wrote:
mattg wrote:I never found much help wrt Squirrelmail on any forum except this one. When I google very specific errors or issues I tend to keep coming back to this forum. :D
As I said higher up this thread the 'hms_squirrelmail' I found to be the most help of all.
Don't use hmailserver keyword, if you search for specific errors unrelated to hmailserver.
I don't, but I still tend to end up here... :D

Matt

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Post by dzekas » 2008-02-19 07:41

mattg wrote: I don't, but I still tend to end up here... :D
http://www.google.com/search?q=squirrelmail+windows

hmailserver is only on 5th page.

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Post by mattg » 2008-02-19 08:18

10th page for me this time - the beauty of Google I guess. I also reckon that most of early links looked like they weren't giving good advice... :D Yes I'm kidding, I didn't look through them all...

But your search shows the point, that there is heaps of squirrelmail for Windows help out there....just need to look.

Matt

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Post by plobby » 2008-02-20 06:19

http://www.squirrelmailforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=6

Made a simple tutorial on how to install squirrelmail on windows.

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Post by dzekas » 2008-02-20 07:28

plobby wrote:http://www.squirrelmailforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=6

Made a simple tutorial on how to install squirrelmail on windows.
1. Don't rename config_default.php. Copy. config_default.php is used by configuration utilities.
2. Some people don't have Dreamweaver installed and will have to use wordpad or htmlkit.
3. Correct way of working with config on Windows is to install active perl
4. IMAP server type does very little. When interface is configured for particular server, you must use preset command or change all options defined in preset.
5: 'c:\data\temp'. Use slashes instead of backslashes and add trailing slash.
6. Your login screen shows unlisted modification in line 555

squirrelmailforum.com is not official squirrelmail forum. neither is sqmail.org. SquirrelMail developers use bug tracker, mailing lists and irc for support because it is easier for them to track issues. I think I've already said. Put your doc in SquirrelMail wiki and ask SquirrelMail devels to port it to static documentation.

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Post by plobby » 2008-02-20 15:11

dzekas wrote:
plobby wrote:http://www.squirrelmailforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=6

Made a simple tutorial on how to install squirrelmail on windows.
1. Don't rename config_default.php. Copy. config_default.php is used by configuration utilities.

Wasnt aware of that.

2. Some people don't have Dreamweaver installed and will have to use wordpad or htmlkit.

Thats why i said you can use notepad or whatever, this is the only editor i had that will show line numbers as stated.

3. Correct way of working with config on Windows is to install active perl

This is an easier method.

4. IMAP server type does very little. When interface is configured for particular server, you must use preset command or change all options defined in preset.

That is why I said leave it as other.

5: 'c:\data\temp'. Use slashes instead of backslashes and add trailing
slash.

Small technicality...

6. Your login screen shows unlisted modification in line 555

It works perfectly for me.

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Post by dzekas » 2008-02-20 16:03

plobby wrote:
2. Some people don't have Dreamweaver installed and will have to use wordpad or htmlkit.
Thats why i said you can use notepad or whatever, this is the only editor i had that will show line numbers as stated.
config_default.php is unreadable in notepad. You have never opened config_default.php or any other SquirrelMail script in notepad before changing them in other editor or your archiver changes line endings automatically.
3. Correct way of working with config on Windows is to install active perl

This is an easier method.
Nope it is not. By doing it with plain text editor you've made two serious mistakes in configuration.

1. Haven't applied preset and assumed that IMAP server uses some specific namespace. 2. Suggested data/temp dir configuration that might cause issues. Configuration utility automatically fixes directory names.

conf.pl is faster than reading config.php and searching for lines that must be modified. With conf.pl user inputs are controlled and they don't have to learn PHP syntax. With plain text editor they can make mistakes that will cause fatal errors in SquirrelMail scripts.

Plus try explaining to end user how to create ldap configuration or enable plugins.
5: 'c:\data\temp'. Use slashes instead of backslashes and add trailing
slash.

Small technicality...
Can break things.
6. Your login screen shows unlisted modification in line 555
It works perfectly for me.
Without that modification login screen is different. "Hi plobby, I have followed your instructions, but why my login has those extra lines of text. They are not visible in your screenshots"

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Post by plobby » 2008-02-20 18:18

config_default.php is unreadable in notepad. You have never opened config_default.php or any other SquirrelMail script in notepad before changing them in other editor or your archiver changes line endings automatically.
Sorry, I meant wordpad.
conf.pl is faster than reading config.php and searching for lines that must be modified. With conf.pl user inputs are controlled and they don't have to learn PHP syntax. With plain text editor they can make mistakes that will cause fatal errors in SquirrelMail scripts.

Plus try explaining to end user how to create ldap configuration or enable plugins.
This is just to get squirrelmail working, not into more complex configurations.
Without that modification login screen is different. "Hi plobby, I have followed your instructions, but why my login has those extra lines of text. They are not visible in your screenshots"
I pulled that screenshot off the squirrelmail site so the version # and all that would be left out so if I were to edit it I wouldnt have to keep taking new screen shots of updated versions, unless if the login screen was dramatically changed.[/quote]

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