Allows setup and config mailbox folder

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Allows setup and config mailbox folder

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yon
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Allows setup and config mailbox folder

Post by yon » 2009-11-08 18:55

Now hmail only has inbox folder in defaut mailbox. I think should allow admin setup default mailbox folder and may edit has exist folder.

default folder should is: inbox, sent, deleted and junk or spam. it is auto creat default folder when creat new mail account.
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Re: Allows setup and config mailbox folder

Post by martin » 2009-11-08 19:02

Normally the email client creates these mailboxes. What would the benefit be with your solution?

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Re: Allows setup and config mailbox folder

Post by yon » 2009-11-08 19:14

martin wrote:Normally the email client creates these inboxes. What would the benefit be with your solution?
I think this should be a function of the mail server. Not all email client creat these inboxes. eg: free client software: http://fox.foxmail.com.cn/

and System administrators can uniform standards for e-mail folder. This will help to achieve other functions.

Mdaemon pro has the functions.
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Re: Allows setup and config mailbox folder

Post by martin » 2009-11-08 19:41

So what would happen if the user choose to user another email client than the one you're referring to? Such as Outlook Express, Windows Mail, SquirrelMail, Thunderbird etc? Then he would have one folder named "Junk" and one named "Junk items". Or one named "Sent" and one named "Sent items". I don't see how this would do anything apart from adding confusion.

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Re: Allows setup and config mailbox folder

Post by yon » 2009-11-09 01:34

martin wrote:So what would happen if the user choose to user another email client than the one you're referring to? Such as Outlook Express, Windows Mail, SquirrelMail, Thunderbird etc? Then he would have one folder named "Junk" and one named "Junk items". Or one named "Sent" and one named "Sent items". I don't see how this would do anything apart from adding confusion.
ok. then if user are use pop3 or webmail , client is auto creat folder? According to your point of view, if some client use IMAP creat folder,then user may change or creat new folder. and why not allow mail system admin creat and edit folder according to their different needs ?.

Do you sure client of user must can auto creat all they needs folder? in fact, some users don't know how creat folder. Because they are used to provide good service. eg: when you apply that yahoo or gmail email service. there are the first many folder for user.

and for mail system can creat and edit folder for Special use. Because people there are many innovative uses.As far as possible to give them more choices.
To give them more freedom. This is my point of view and suggestions.
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Re: Allows setup and config mailbox folder

Post by ^DooM^ » 2009-11-09 02:01

yon wrote:ok. then if user are use pop3 or webmail , client is auto creat folder? According to your point of view, if some client use IMAP creat folder,then user may change or creat new folder. and why not allow mail system admin creat and edit folder according to their different needs ?.
How do you know they will only use pop3?
yon wrote:Do you sure client of user must can auto creat all they needs folder? in fact, some users don't know how creat folder. Because they are used to provide good service. eg: when you apply that yahoo or gmail email service. there are the first many folder for user.
But with gmail, yahoo etc you use their own proprietary client which means they know that the folder names are setup in a specific way.
yon wrote:and for mail system can creat and edit folder for Special use. Because people there are many innovative uses.As far as possible to give them more choices. To give them more freedom. This is my point of view and suggestions.
To give us more support work because someone cant find their urgent mail as it's in a different imap folder.
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Re: Allows setup and config mailbox folder

Post by yon » 2009-11-09 02:18

>How do you know they will only use pop3?

Yes. I am sure someone only use webmail and pop3 . and I have told them try use IMAP. Many pepole don't know what is IMAP. they think pop3 fast download mail than IMAP. why must use IMAP? There are practical examples where employees of enterprises are almost always used POP3 and webmail.
I have offer and told them for try use IMAP.


Because they are engaged in a variety of occupations, and subjected to different levels of education. Every place has different environments, we should provide them more choices and easier to use the service.

> But with gmail, yahoo etc you use their own proprietary client which means they know that the folder names are setup in a specific way.

yes. then why not allow hmail admin setup and config for they user? hmail server for world use,right? It may be used in different environments.

Why can not we put the choice in the hands of administrators and users? It can be an option in the mail system.
Last edited by yon on 2009-11-09 02:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Allows setup and config mailbox folder

Post by ^DooM^ » 2009-11-09 02:28

yon wrote:Many pepole don't know what is IMAP.
Nice sweeping generalisation there :)
yon wrote:Because they are engaged in a variety of occupations, and subjected to different levels of education. Every place has different environments, we should provide them more choices and easier to use the service.
I'm all for making things easier but I don't really see the benefit in this case. Just my own opinion :)
yon wrote:yes. then why not allow hmail admin setup and config for they user? hmail server for world use,right? It may be used in different environments.
No you don't seem to understand. gMail and Yahoo and hotmail all have their own clients. You cannot use a different client with their services. This means they can setup folder names to be whatever they want and know that their own clients only need look for those specific folder names. Allowing an admin to set any old name up in hmail will cause problems because you can use any imap client you want and most of them do things their own way except for the inbox. that is set as standard as per RFC's.

If you for instance setup "Junk" in roundcube. Then access it with Squirrelmail, that is looking for "Spam" how is SM going to know what you called it? Then you access it with outlook at that looks for "Spam Folder", then again with thunderbird and that looks for "Junk Folder" and you setup "junk mail folder" in hMail.. None of those other clients will see that folder and any mail you place into it will be only visible to the client you set it with unless you subscribe to the folder, in which case you may as well create the folder in the first place if you have to subscribe to it anyway.
yon wrote:Why can not we put the choice in the hands of administrators and users? It can be an option in the mail system.
For the reasons i stated above.
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Re: Allows setup and config mailbox folder

Post by mattg » 2009-11-09 02:45

I access my IMAP mail from a number of different clients, some just for testing and play. I have 'trash', 'trash folder', 'delete' and 'deleted items' all for the same purpose. And then for sent items I have.....

The only consistent one is 'Inbox', but then I only use English, perhaps if I used other languages this may not be consistent either.

I understand that 'inbox' is created by default by hMailserver and that this is the only folder that is created. I also understand that new folders can be added via script...
Just 'cause I link to a page and say little else doesn't mean I am not being nice.
https://www.hmailserver.com/documentation

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Re: Allows setup and config mailbox folder

Post by yon » 2009-11-09 02:48

^DooM^ wrote:
yon wrote:Many pepole don't know what is IMAP.
Nice sweeping generalisation there :)
yon wrote:Because they are engaged in a variety of occupations, and subjected to different levels of education. Every place has different environments, we should provide them more choices and easier to use the service.
I'm all for making things easier but I don't really see the benefit in this case. Just my own opinion :)
yon wrote:yes. then why not allow hmail admin setup and config for they user? hmail server for world use,right? It may be used in different environments.
No you don't seem to understand. gMail and Yahoo and hotmail all have their own clients. You cannot use a different client with their services. This means they can setup folder names to be whatever they want and know that their own clients only need look for those specific folder names. Allowing an admin to set any old name up in hmail will cause problems because you can use any imap client you want and most of them do things their own way except for the inbox. that is set as standard as per RFC's.

If you for instance setup "Junk" in roundcube. Then access it with Squirrelmail, that is looking for "Spam" how is SM going to know what you called it? Then you access it with outlook at that looks for "Spam Folder", then again with thunderbird and that looks for "Junk Folder" and you setup "junk mail folder" in hMail.. None of those other clients will see that folder and any mail you place into it will be only visible to the client you set it with unless you subscribe to the folder, in which case you may as well create the folder in the first place if you have to subscribe to it anyway.
yon wrote:Why can not we put the choice in the hands of administrators and users? It can be an option in the mail system.
For the reasons i stated above.
I am understand your mean. yahoo and gmai can use client. and I have using client for yahoo mail.

I have encountered the situation you say. Because the Mdaemon Pro offer auto creat and edit folder for admin and user. However, the client automatically prompts for the user to select a directory name. eg: foxmail client. and I had try install Squirrelmail with Mdaemon. and I have setup junk call as Spam folder.
if you like call junk or any others, it is still can choose. but if hmail can not auto creat folder, then some client not auto creat folder. eg: foxmail .

I have try use foxmail client with IMAP, it is only has inbox folder, and can not creat any others folder if hmail not creat default the folder.

So I think add an option to hmail,Allows administrators to decide whether and how to use.
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Re: Allows setup and config mailbox folder

Post by yon » 2009-11-09 02:57

mattg wrote:I access my IMAP mail from a number of different clients, some just for testing and play. I have 'trash', 'trash folder', 'delete' and 'deleted items' all for the same purpose. And then for sent items I have.....

The only consistent one is 'Inbox', but then I only use English, perhaps if I used other languages this may not be consistent either.

I understand that 'inbox' is created by default by hMailserver and that this is the only folder that is created. I also understand that new folders can be added via script...

yes. For example,Mdaemon pro others language version use someone country language folder. If the directory name and different standards. then Client Pop up a window to select what is your want to use folder name. The Mdaemon default auto creat standards folder name. if admin have setup addon folder. Mdaemon can auto creat for that addon folder.
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Re: Allows setup and config mailbox folder

Post by yon » 2009-11-09 03:14

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Re: Allows setup and config mailbox folder

Post by mattg » 2009-11-09 03:21

That's a different issue I think.
That poster is asking default folders for mail downloaded from External accounts, and being able to select that folder from the 'External Accounts' component of the hMailserver Administrator GUI and/or the PHPWebAdmin
Just 'cause I link to a page and say little else doesn't mean I am not being nice.
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Re: Allows setup and config mailbox folder

Post by yon » 2009-11-09 03:55

mattg wrote:That's a different issue I think.
That poster is asking default folders for mail downloaded from External accounts, and being able to select that folder from the 'External Accounts' component of the hMailserver Administrator GUI and/or the PHPWebAdmin

But the truth is actually the same. To required to allow administrators to select and configure the folder. Whether this configuration file is from a local or from outside, or the administrator create your own.
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Re: Allows setup and config mailbox folder

Post by dzekas » 2009-11-09 08:20

Request for automatic folder creation is normal. Some IMAP servers do have such feature. But folders should be created only when user logs in in IMAP. Account creation and POP3 or SMTP logins should not create extra folders.

Proposed defaults are not good. Default should be not to create any other folders.

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Re: Allows setup and config mailbox folder

Post by ^DooM^ » 2009-11-09 10:09

Sounds to me like foxmail needs to be fixed.
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Re: Allows setup and config mailbox folder

Post by martin » 2009-11-10 18:41

Most IMAP clients works like this:

- It connects to the server.
- It detects that there is no Junk/Spam/Junk mail folder or whatever, and creates it.
- It does the same thing for Trash and Sent items.

Some clients creates the folders when they are needed, and not immediately.

No email client I've seen so far automatically tries to locate already existing folders for specific purposes, unless they match the name the client is configured to use. For example, if I create a folder named Sent items and then connect using a swedish version of Outlook Express, Outlook Express will create a folder with a name similar to "Skickat" which is Swedish for sent.

So if you connect to the server using 5 different clients, it's very likely that you'll have a folder named Sent, and another folder named Sent items. And if you're using a non-english version of your mail client, you will probably have some non-english folder names in your account as well.

hMailServer doesn't know what's in these folders. hMailServer doesn't know that "Skickat" is the swedish word for "Sent". And it doesn't know that some email client may be using a folder named "Outbox" to store sent items. All these things are up to the client.

If an administrator creates a folder named "Sent", and I connect to that IMAP account using my email client, my email client will still create a folder named "Skickat". So now I'll have both a "Sent" folder and one named "Skickat".

Without limiting what folder names the end-users can create, I don't see how the server administrator could centrally control the IMAP folder names.
No you don't seem to understand. gMail and Yahoo and hotmail all have their own clients. You cannot use a different client with their services.
That is wrong. I use Gmail with IMAP.
then Client Pop up a window to select what is your want to use folder name.
What client? I've never seen a client which does this. All clients I've tested use their own names without asking me. Sure, it's possible to tweak the settings in the configuration but I doubt many users does that.

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Re: Allows setup and config mailbox folder

Post by westdam » 2009-11-12 09:48

i dont think this feature should be allowed.
i'm italian and as martin told you if hmailserver automatically creates folders, right now i'll have lots of "sent,sent items,inviata,posta inviata,spedita" ecc ecc.

unless a rfc states which folder IS designed for sent items ,junk,ecc the client can do what they want..( that is right for me.. ) maybe the "limitation" of foxmail is not a limitation .. i hate outlook express for that..

i prefer hmailserver wont automatically creates the folder. i'd like to creates myself and choose.

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Re: Allows setup and config mailbox folder

Post by yon » 2009-11-13 04:45

I think you misunderstood. What I mean is to add an option in Hmail. Whether it is necessary to establish the Standard and specific folder, To administrators and users a choice.

Hmail server should allow choice creat the Standard or others for Admin or users. if hmail has no creat standard folder,then use email client on pop3 type link hamail server, will can not get any folder.

just for an option in hamil. please!it is not enforce.
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Re: Allows setup and config mailbox folder

Post by yon » 2009-11-13 04:53

martin wrote:Most IMAP clients works like this:

- It connects to the server.
- It detects that there is no Junk/Spam/Junk mail folder or whatever, and creates it.
- It does the same thing for Trash and Sent items.

Some clients creates the folders when they are needed, and not immediately.

No email client I've seen so far automatically tries to locate already existing folders for specific purposes, unless they match the name the client is configured to use. For example, if I create a folder named Sent items and then connect using a swedish version of Outlook Express, Outlook Express will create a folder with a name similar to "Skickat" which is Swedish for sent.

So if you connect to the server using 5 different clients, it's very likely that you'll have a folder named Sent, and another folder named Sent items. And if you're using a non-english version of your mail client, you will probably have some non-english folder names in your account as well.

hMailServer doesn't know what's in these folders. hMailServer doesn't know that "Skickat" is the swedish word for "Sent". And it doesn't know that some email client may be using a folder named "Outbox" to store sent items. All these things are up to the client.

If an administrator creates a folder named "Sent", and I connect to that IMAP account using my email client, my email client will still create a folder named "Skickat". So now I'll have both a "Sent" folder and one named "Skickat".

Without limiting what folder names the end-users can create, I don't see how the server administrator could centrally control the IMAP folder names.
No you don't seem to understand. gMail and Yahoo and hotmail all have their own clients. You cannot use a different client with their services.
That is wrong. I use Gmail with IMAP.
then Client Pop up a window to select what is your want to use folder name.
What client? I've never seen a client which does this. All clients I've tested use their own names without asking me. Sure, it's possible to tweak the settings in the configuration but I doubt many users does that.

you can try and download foxmail client from here:

http://www.softpedia.com/get/Internet/E ... mail.shtml


http://fox.foxmail.com.cn/
http://dl_dir.qq.com/foxmail/foxmail65.exe
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Re: Allows setup and config mailbox folder

Post by yon » 2009-11-13 04:57

The altn Mdaemon mail server always can allow admin and domain admin user choice creat standard and others folder.

I first encountered the mail server does not allow the establishment of a folder.
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Re: Allows setup and config mailbox folder

Post by westdam » 2009-11-13 10:19

mmm let's explain better :
hmailserver follows the RFC. The RFC doesnt force to setup folders as standard into mailserver.So should be a client feature.
For me, the RFC eventually,had to force the client to a standard folder, not on a server-side.
Basically for the reason above : the languages. You will have a unique server but lots of users of different countries/languages. So it's the client MUST provide a standard auto-creation of folder related to the languages.( i assume if i'm italian i'd use different client BUT in italian languages..so i wont have for example " sent items, sent, posta inviata," just only " posta inviata " )
If RFC force this , you WONT anymore this feature on hmailserver.

I've used foxmail for a couple of years and it's a nice and light email client... but have some bugs ( or the previous version.) especially with imap..

anyway You can add a poll if you want this enabled on hmailserver but I dont think forcing it will have some benefits.

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Re: Allows setup and config mailbox folder

Post by yon » 2009-11-13 11:00

westdam wrote:mmm let's explain better :
hmailserver follows the RFC. The RFC doesnt force to setup folders as standard into mailserver.So should be a client feature.
For me, the RFC eventually,had to force the client to a standard folder, not on a server-side.
Basically for the reason above : the languages. You will have a unique server but lots of users of different countries/languages. So it's the client MUST provide a standard auto-creation of folder related to the languages.( i assume if i'm italian i'd use different client BUT in italian languages..so i wont have for example " sent items, sent, posta inviata," just only " posta inviata " )
If RFC force this , you WONT anymore this feature on hmailserver.

I've used foxmail for a couple of years and it's a nice and light email client... but have some bugs ( or the previous version.) especially with imap..

anyway You can add a poll if you want this enabled on hmailserver but I dont think forcing it will have some benefits.

if use pop3,it is client creat folder?
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Re: Allows setup and config mailbox folder

Post by ^DooM^ » 2009-11-13 11:02

If you use POP3 the folder is created on the clients computer. The server is not aware of folders if you use POP3 Except for IMAP INBOX which has to be created.
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Re: Allows setup and config mailbox folder

Post by westdam » 2009-11-13 11:23

exactly..pop3 doesnt allow to create folder.

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