SRS - Sender Rewriting Scheme

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Should SRS - "Sender Rewriting Scheme" be implemented?

yes
28
100%
no
0
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Total votes: 28

Schurki
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SRS - Sender Rewriting Scheme

Post by Schurki » 2008-03-06 20:26

I really do have severe problems when using distribustion lists and mail forwarding when the receiving mail server has SPF enabled.

Example:
I have a distribution list mylist@domain.com
User from user@gmx.net sends email to this distribution list. gmx.net has SPF enabled
another user otheruser@gmx.net is part of the distribution list mylist@domain.com
user@gmx.net gets an errormessage, since hmailserver cannot deliver to otheruser@gmx.net (for SPF policy reasons)

Now, there is a solution for this problem, it is called SRS - Sender Rewriting Scheme, explained here: http://www.openspf.org/SRS

I really would love to see this feature implemented in a future version of hmailserver.

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Post by redrummy » 2008-03-07 05:37

According to this thread...

http://www.hmailserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4105

...it's already planned for v5 or you can use ASSP to implement it now.

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Post by Slug » 2008-03-09 13:34

SRS is NOT in V5
Missing Hmailserver ... Now running Debian servers

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Post by redrummy » 2008-03-09 21:29

Hmmm... must have been a misinformed user then. Thanks for the correction.

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Post by martin » 2008-03-09 21:57

The thing is that there's no "fixed" plans for what will be included in hMailServer releases. Things are added and things are removed... :-\

I still want to look into this specific issue but since other parts of v5 has taken a lot longer than guessed, I think it will be postponed.. :(

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Post by westdam » 2008-03-14 12:32

never mind martin. continue to build this great piece of software :)
i was looking for srs too but i'll wait :)

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Post by MG » 2008-03-14 17:59

I just had a couple users that picked up some new BlackBerrys. Blackberry says to implement SRS. I'll rewrite my spf to include BB for now but this would be nice to have included.

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Re: SRS - Sender Rewriting Scheme

Post by Schurki » 2010-03-09 01:11

Is SRS implemented in any of the new versions? Still I have a strong urge for this feature

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Re: SRS - Sender Rewriting Scheme

Post by ^DooM^ » 2010-03-09 01:15

Not to my knowledge
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Re: SRS - Sender Rewriting Scheme

Post by Schurki » 2010-03-09 07:17

Any roadmaps/future plans for this feature?

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Re: SRS - Sender Rewriting Scheme

Post by ^DooM^ » 2010-03-09 10:24

This is a rough guide to whats probably going to be added to hMail http://www.hmailserver.com/?page=feature_voting
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Re: SRS - Sender Rewriting Scheme

Post by konus1 » 2012-11-09 18:21

The thread is quite old. Does hMailServer now support this feature?

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Re: SRS - Sender Rewriting Scheme

Post by Bill48105 » 2012-11-09 18:56

konus1 wrote:The thread is quite old. Does hMailServer now support this feature?
It is indeed very old but sadly no it has not been added to hmail yet. it's definitely very high on the to-do list though. Truth is seems few people actually need it or there'd be more clamoring for it over the years. I thought there was a script rewrite method too but I'd have to look.
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Re: SRS - Sender Rewriting Scheme

Post by ObiWan » 2013-03-27 09:31

Bill48105 wrote:
konus1 wrote:The thread is quite old. Does hMailServer now support this feature?
It is indeed very old but sadly no it has not been added to hmail yet. it's definitely very high on the to-do list though. Truth is seems few people actually need it or there'd be more clamoring for it over the years. I thought there was a script rewrite method too but I'd have to look.
Bill
Bill... I'm late on this, but I think it's worth saying that SRS isn't something "few people needs"; I think that a lot of people didn't realize why SRS is needed (and mind me, it IS needed); imagine having a mailbox (not to mention distribution lists) on the "mail.example.com" server; the mailbox owner configured the mailbox to forward all messages to an external account say on gmail. Now, let's say that "facebook" sends a message to such a mailbox; the message is accepted by hMail on example.com and hMail then forwards such an email to the gmail mailbox but... the forwarding FAILS since facebook publishes an SPF policy (just issue a DNS lookup for the _spf.facebook.com TXT record) which says that only the facebook servers are allowed to send messages on the behalf of the facebook domain and since, with the forwarding, our message is pretending to be "from facebook" but is sent by an unauthorized IP (our example.com server) it's rejected. The whole issue is even worse when it comes to distribution lists including addresses from external domains ... so, I think that SRS is a "must have" and not an option; sure, someone may arrange bits of scripting and implement some "kinda, sorta" of SRS mechanism, but it would be far better having it right "inside" hMailServer so that hMS will be able to check/strip SRS when receiving messages and to add it when sending (by the way, if needed, that is if the sender and the recipient are both on external domains)

[edit]

Since we're at it ...

http://www.openspf.org/SRS

http://www.libsrs2.org/

http://www.libsrs2.org/docs/mta-users.html

I gave a quick peek at the libsrs2 code and while I can't say it for sure (didn't check the hMS source code), it doesn't seem too complex to add libsrs2 to hMS so allowing it to handle SRS; sure, it may require adding some configuration options (possibly in the GUI) but other than that, the calls are quite straightforward

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Re: SRS - Sender Rewriting Scheme

Post by Bill48105 » 2013-03-27 16:09

ObiWan. While constructive input is welcomed & appreciated, debating if SRS is needed or not is like debating if underwear is needed.. Obviously we all have our preferences & for normal mail server usage SRS is not needed.. It depends on the server config forwarding outside messages to the outside. My policies do not allow that so I have no need. (I do not allow forwards to outside boxes. Never have & never will.) Few people use mailing lists that send to outside boxes that also accept from outside addresses as it's a bad practice. Sure you can come up with valid examples where one MIGHT but I prefer boxer briefs, so what's the point. ;)

I will not spend my time adding something few people will use no matter how much bullying or arguing takes place. I already agreed SRS would be nice addition and I know what SRS is so no need for links to SRS page or explaining it to me. But arguing it is needed when I've already explained my position just irritates me & makes me want to work on it less. Currently my time is allocated for work & personal/family so I've been trying to just keep up with bugs or urgent problems that come up & not had time to review the SRS stuff again. And as I said I'm pretty sure it could be done in scripting reasonably easy if someone wanted (oops I mean needed) it bad enough. And if not the source is available to anyone who wants to work on it so have at it.
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Re: SRS - Sender Rewriting Scheme

Post by ObiWan » 2013-03-27 16:27

Bill48105 wrote:ObiWan. While constructive input is welcomed & appreciated, debating if SRS is needed or not is like debating if underwear is needed.. Obviously we all have our preferences & for normal mail server usage SRS is not needed.. It depends on the server config forwarding outside messages to the outside. My policies do not allow that so I have no need. (I do not allow forwards to outside boxes. Never have & never will.) Few people use mailing lists that send to outside boxes that also accept from outside addresses as it's a bad practice. Sure you can come up with valid examples where one MIGHT but I prefer boxer briefs, so what's the point. ;)

I will not spend my time adding something few people will use no matter how much bullying or arguing takes place. I already agreed SRS would be nice addition and I know what SRS is so no need for links to SRS page or explaining it to me. But arguing it is needed when I've already explained my position just irritates me & makes me want to work on it less. Currently my time is allocated for work & personal/family so I've been trying to just keep up with bugs or urgent problems that come up & not had time to review the SRS stuff again. And as I said I'm pretty sure it could be done in scripting reasonably easy if someone wanted (oops I mean needed) it bad enough. And if not the source is available to anyone who wants to work on it so have at it.
Bill
Bill... maybe I was unclear and/or too straight (probably the latter); I know we already discussed SRS elsewhere and I know that you don't need documentation/links related to it; what I tried to state was that SRS is imHo a need to "close the loop" (hMS already supports SPF and SRS is a need, not an option) and that it shouldn't be too difficult to implement... even using a 3rd party, existing library; the links were just meant to allow others, reading my post, to gather some infos, nothing more/less

That said, family comes first, for sure, so I'm not (and the post wasn't) trying to "hurry you up", not my way; I was just saying that, set aside whatever "urgent fix", implementing SRS may be somewhat "up the pile" but then, again, up to you

sorry if I was unclear

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Re: SRS - Sender Rewriting Scheme

Post by Bill48105 » 2013-03-27 17:31

ObiWan wrote:Bill... maybe I was unclear and/or too straight (probably the latter); I know we already discussed SRS elsewhere and I know that you don't need documentation/links related to it; what I tried to state was that SRS is imHo a need to "close the loop" (hMS already supports SPF and SRS is a need, not an option) and that it shouldn't be too difficult to implement... even using a 3rd party, existing library; the links were just meant to allow others, reading my post, to gather some infos, nothing more/less

That said, family comes first, for sure, so I'm not (and the post wasn't) trying to "hurry you up", not my way; I was just saying that, set aside whatever "urgent fix", implementing SRS may be somewhat "up the pile" but then, again, up to you

sorry if I was unclear
Indeed perhaps I misunderstood your post so I apologize if I did.

My stance remains the same either way. SRS would be nice addition but IMO it is not NEEDED. If it was such a big deal there'd be more people complaining about it but there have been very few people asking for it or complaining it's needed. And if it was needed bad enough someone would have made a scripted solution by now. So it's on my list but there are many other things above it as far as I'm concerned.
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Re: SRS - Sender Rewriting Scheme

Post by Sinobi.dk » 2013-06-08 18:36

I'm one of the silent users for the last 7 years, and really like hmail.
I for one would like SRS implemented.
Been struggling with this for some time without knowing it.
Just found out what the problem was.
While it's true that it's not really a needed option, reality sometimes makes it a solution that make life a lot easier.
Amongst other things, I use hmail on a small school owned by the pupils parents.
Elected parents sits on the board of the school, and have a common e-mail address; board@school.com,
that sends to a distribution list, that then again sends received e-mails to the private e-mail addresses of the members of the board.
As old members of the board leaves and new members join every 6 months, I only need to change addresses in the distribution list,
and not set up new local e-mail addresses for all of them.
At the same time the members don't have to open several e-mail boxes on several webmail sites every day to check for e-mail,
they just continue to use there private e-mail.

Kind regards
Henrik

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Re: SRS - Sender Rewriting Scheme

Post by Bill48105 » 2013-06-08 19:08

Sinobi.dk wrote:I'm one of the silent users for the last 7 years, and really like hmail.
I for one would like SRS implemented.
Been struggling with this for some time without knowing it.
Just found out what the problem was.
While it's true that it's not really a needed option, reality sometimes makes it a solution that make life a lot easier.
Amongst other things, I use hmail on a small school owned by the pupils parents.
Elected parents sits on the board of the school, and have a common e-mail address; board@school.com,
that sends to a distribution list, that then again sends received e-mails to the private e-mail addresses of the members of the board.
As old members of the board leaves and new members join every 6 months, I only need to change addresses in the distribution list,
and not set up new local e-mail addresses for all of them.
At the same time the members don't have to open several e-mail boxes on several webmail sites every day to check for e-mail,
they just continue to use there private e-mail.

Kind regards
Henrik
Hey Henrik,
SRS & STARTTLS are 2 things very near top of things to work on for 5.4.1. Just can't say for sure they'll be done or when but that they are definitely one of 1st things to be worked on besides bug fixes.
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Re: SRS - Sender Rewriting Scheme

Post by ObiWan » 2013-06-10 18:20

Bill48105 wrote: Hey Henrik,
SRS & STARTTLS are 2 things very near top of things to work on for 5.4.1. Just can't say for sure they'll be done or when but that they are definitely one of 1st things to be worked on besides bug fixes.
Bill
Now that's GOOD news !!

As for SRS, I already wrote why I believe it's a need and not just an option and it's not just related to "distribution lists" but also to "forwarding", the very same problem happens in case a given user has a local mailbox forwarding to an external one so, again, the above is really good news :)

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Re: SRS - Sender Rewriting Scheme

Post by Bill48105 » 2013-06-10 18:42

ObiWan wrote:
Bill48105 wrote: Hey Henrik,
SRS & STARTTLS are 2 things very near top of things to work on for 5.4.1. Just can't say for sure they'll be done or when but that they are definitely one of 1st things to be worked on besides bug fixes.
Bill
Now that's GOOD news !!

As for SRS, I already wrote why I believe it's a need and not just an option and it's not just related to "distribution lists" but also to "forwarding", the very same problem happens in case a given user has a local mailbox forwarding to an external one so, again, the above is really good news :)
LOL you're still trying to sell the idea when I just said it's one of top things to be worked on soon. :P

To me it's a bad idea to blindly forward mail to outside domains even with SRS but at the same time I can see the benefit as long as people understand the risks of potential issues (in particular getting blacklisted for forwarding spam). In a way you are partially protected without using SRS because most will get rejected at SMTP level due to SPF failure but with SRS active, messages are more likely to make it in & be analyzed for content and since it's actually FROM your domain now after being rewritten YOU get spanked.

Anyway like I said it's one of the top few things to be worked on since it does have legit reasons to be used.
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Re: SRS - Sender Rewriting Scheme

Post by ObiWan » 2013-06-11 15:03

Bill48105 wrote:LOL you're still trying to sell the idea when I just said it's one of top things to be worked on soon. :P

To me it's a bad idea to blindly forward mail to outside domains even with SRS but at the same time I can see the benefit as long as people understand the risks of potential issues (in particular getting blacklisted for forwarding spam). In a way you are partially protected without using SRS because most will get rejected at SMTP level due to SPF failure but with SRS active, messages are more likely to make it in & be analyzed for content and since it's actually FROM your domain now after being rewritten YOU get spanked.

Anyway like I said it's one of the top few things to be worked on since it does have legit reasons to be used.
Bill
No, Bill, you're totally off-side, I'm not trying to "sell" it (if you prefer thinking at SRS that way), I'm just saying what I said from the beginning (ok, wrote, to be correct), that is, if you implement SPF checks then you MUST ALSO implement SRS, there's no alternative; not just this, I'm not sure what you're using hMail for, but there ARE folks which allow external forwarding (and I suspect more than you may imagine) and ALL of them would benefit from SRS, believe it or not. That said, your example about the fact that, implementing SRS would allow "junk" to go through the server and be forwarded elsewhere is just wrong, see, if a given receiver decided to implement SPF checks (which is a good thing) it should ALSO implement "SRS unwrapping" at the same time and, in such a case "your server" won't be "blacklisted" ... not to say that before getting into a BL you'll have do to some very "bad" things... anyhow, feel free to implement it or not, it isn't a problem, all in all I'm using ASSP "in front of" hMS and it does SRS so, if you think that hMS needs some kind of "crutch" to stay up, no problem from me, just drop the SRS and go on

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Re: SRS - Sender Rewriting Scheme

Post by Bill48105 » 2013-06-11 16:59

ObiWan wrote: No, Bill, you're totally off-side, I'm not trying to "sell" it (if you prefer thinking at SRS that way), I'm just saying what I said from the beginning (ok, wrote, to be correct), that is, if you implement SPF checks then you MUST ALSO implement SRS, there's no alternative; not just this, I'm not sure what you're using hMail for, but there ARE folks which allow external forwarding (and I suspect more than you may imagine) and ALL of them would benefit from SRS, believe it or not. That said, your example about the fact that, implementing SRS would allow "junk" to go through the server and be forwarded elsewhere is just wrong, see, if a given receiver decided to implement SPF checks (which is a good thing) it should ALSO implement "SRS unwrapping" at the same time and, in such a case "your server" won't be "blacklisted" ... not to say that before getting into a BL you'll have do to some very "bad" things... anyhow, feel free to implement it or not, it isn't a problem, all in all I'm using ASSP "in front of" hMS and it does SRS so, if you think that hMS needs some kind of "crutch" to stay up, no problem from me, just drop the SRS and go on
Must be a language barrier.. "trying to sell" means you're trying to convince me to do it even after I said it was planned to be done soon.

In terms of unwrapping, if the remote end does not (there is no way to tell in advance if they will) then it sees it is from your domain now which is worse than if it was left as the original sender & just rejected. And even if they do unwrap it doesn't mean they won't blacklist you for being open relay sending shit spam to them.

Obviously you can argue all you want I already said it was planned & like anything there are pros/cons which vary per situation.
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Re: SRS - Sender Rewriting Scheme

Post by DeanoX » 2013-06-12 05:04

Can this poll be modified so that votes can be changed please.

Thanks,
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Re: SRS - Sender Rewriting Scheme

Post by mattg » 2013-06-12 05:29

done.

Also this morning I noticed that the poll was expired. This too has been fixed.
(It was only open for 30 days when originally added)
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Re: SRS - Sender Rewriting Scheme

Post by n3jc » 2014-10-27 22:22

Any news here? :)

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Re:

Post by mattg » 2014-10-28 00:24

martin wrote:The thing is that there's no "fixed" plans for what will be included in hMailServer releases.
This is a user poll, this is NOT a statement of what will be added.

hMailserver is open source, and is on GIThub.
You can add SRS if important to you, and then perhaps some of the rest of us may get to use it too.
Just 'cause I link to a page and say little else doesn't mean I am not being nice.
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Re: SRS - Sender Rewriting Scheme

Post by DjGL » 2016-08-30 21:19

Absolutly must-have :)
I hope there will be any progress in the future.

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Re: SRS - Sender Rewriting Scheme

Post by drsox » 2017-03-03 15:38

Hotmail changes over the last few days now mean that I also need SRS.

Any user who has email forwarded to Hotmail now has failed delivery due to SPF :(
SRS seems to be the only way to fix it whilst also maintaining fairly quick message delivery. The other option is to get Hotmail to poll the IMAP / POP3 account but they do this so infrequently that users then complain about message delays.

However! hMailserver is not alone - even Office 365 can now no longer forward messages reliably to Hotmail destinations ;)

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Re: SRS - Sender Rewriting Scheme

Post by ObiWan » 2017-03-03 17:23

drsox wrote:Hotmail changes over the last few days now mean that I also need SRS.

Any user who has email forwarded to Hotmail now has failed delivery due to SPF :(
SRS seems to be the only way to fix it whilst also maintaining fairly quick message delivery. The other option is to get Hotmail to poll the IMAP / POP3 account but they do this so infrequently that users then complain about message delays.

However! hMailserver is not alone - even Office 365 can now no longer forward messages reliably to Hotmail destinations ;)
Well, that's what I wrote quite a lot of time ago, any mailserver implementing mail forwarding, should implement SRS too; and while in a past that may have been an option, as of today it's mandatory, otherwise, a receiving server checking SPF over forwarded emails would reject them, worse, repeated forwards and rejects toward external servers, could and will cause your server reputation go down and down, and this may eventually result in mail being rejected just due to the sending IP having a "bad reputation". Anyhow, I have no word in this, sounds like SRS isn't considered important, so well, at the moment the only way to have it, if using hMailServer is use something like ASSP or the like <sigh>

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Re: SRS - Sender Rewriting Scheme

Post by mattg » 2017-03-04 00:52

Anyone tried using the ini setting

That should mean that the original message recipient is now the from and DKIM are signed appropriately

Add this to the bottom of your hMailserver.ini

Code: Select all

[settings]
RewriteEnvelopeFromWhenForwarding=1
; When performing forwarding, hMailServer now keeps the original From address rather than changing to that of the forwarding account.
; This change was made to reduce risk of message delivery failures.
; To force the previous behavior, set RewriteEnvelopeFromWhenForwarding=1
; Default value is 0
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Re: SRS - Sender Rewriting Scheme

Post by drsox » 2017-03-04 01:25

Interesting setting - I will give it a go. Even if it rewrites the From: as the account on hmailserver at least it might allow successful delivery :)

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Re: SRS - Sender Rewriting Scheme

Post by RvdH » 2017-08-04 12:26

SRS seems to be a feature that really could make 'todays' life easier if a e-mail has to be forwarded...

The RewriteEnvelopeFromWhenForwarding=1 works, but only for real accounts, as far i have experienced it does not for aliases and/or distribution list
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