Shared folders when using IMAP

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Do you need this feature?

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No
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Total votes: 142

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martin
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Shared folders when using IMAP

Post by martin » 2004-06-28 23:26

Was wondering if there is any interesst in shared folders.
It would be possible to add support for domain-wide IMAP folders. So all users on a domain can have a common folder structure were you can store messages.

Perhaps with different permissions so that only one user can add new messages to it but everyone can see it.

Not sure if it's useful though...
Last edited by martin on 2007-03-16 19:40, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Jason Weir » 2004-06-29 00:09

kind of like public folders in Exchange. Sounds like a great idea. I would definitely use it.

Thanks
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Post by richie444 » 2004-07-06 15:09

Hmmm... Really sounds like a good idea. The problem is that Microsoft doesn't release the protocol outlook uses for public folders, calenders, tasks lists, and so on, so you cannot use this feature with all outlook capabilities.
Of course it would be cool to have an alternative to exchange server, but in my opinion that would go to far.

Anyway, domain wide public folders with permissions would be great and would make hMailServer even more powerful in comparison with other open source projects.

Maybe you have another thought about it...

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Post by Bram » 2004-07-06 16:23

This looks like a very good idea to me. I would use it definitly! The security part (one can post, rest can read) makes it very usefull :)

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Shared folders

Post by martin9 » 2004-09-27 11:28

Martin,

I would greatly appreciate shared folders for hMailServer.
In fact, it is just this feature I want hMailServer to use for.

My current plan is, to connect to one hMailServer account with several people from their client PCs. This seems to work fine.
hMailServer will not send or receive any mails, but just serve as a common mail storage.
Unfortunately, all people must know the same password, and if one leaves, the PW must be changed for all.

I tried to change hMailServer's folder structure (one folder per account) to map them together - but it didn't work. I had worried about MySQLs reaction anyhow.
But that would be just what I'm looking for: one account per person, and several accounts for one shared data space.

Why don't we use Exchange's public folders? Because the Exchange admins are restricting public folders heavily, after too many departments stored huge amounts of data there, which creates severe backup problems.
I can control the hMailServer disk space myself, which makes it my favourite solution!

So ... maybe you could just give me a hint how to map more than one account to one directory?

Regards, Martin

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Post by frohsch » 2004-09-27 15:17

I'm in. Sounds like a great idea!

I would use shared folders anyways - be it with or without special permissions...

Thanks and have a nice day :)

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File Locking

Post by JoshD » 2004-11-04 10:16

How would something like this work with file locking? I was under the impression that a folder was normally opened for exclusive use. For example, I connect to my email using IMAP and leave Outlook open all day. However, if I go to log in via Horde or another IMAP application, I immediately get an error message that the IMAP connection has been closed.

Can we reliably write code that will handle multiple simultaneous edits?

Josh

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more restrictions

Post by phk » 2004-11-04 11:15

Hi,

that's a great idea.
But why only define 1 user with write-access and the rest only read-access.
I would prefer the following way:
The user which creates the folder is the folder-master and has all rights.
This user can define which other users are allowed to read or write data in this folder.

phk

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Post by darkestnight » 2005-01-27 19:21

Sounds like a great idea.
DarkestNight

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Post by delljustin » 2005-01-28 04:30

I agree, this is a good idea.

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Post by martin » 2005-01-28 12:56

That makes it a bit more complicated. How should the user define this. Via a web-frontend? I'm not aware of any IMAP-clients supporting this?

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Post by theTerran » 2005-01-28 17:57

This is something Exchange does with Outlook as a MAPI client. It's one of the primary reasons we use Exchange internally. Shared (or "Public") folders support multiple permission levels, which can be assigned to Exchange or AD users/groups/distribution lists, mail delivery to folders, and lots of other neat things that I'll leave off for now.

There is also provision for allowing users access to other mailboxes, or even folders within mailboxes, by permissions assigned by the admin or by the users themselves for their own folders.

Some information can be shared without assigning any rights to a user or mailbox, such as free/busy information from users' calendars when setting up appointments/meetings/etc. Add the user to your invite list, and you see what blocks of time they have already scheduled for something.

All of this is great, but totally proprietary(and Exchange is expensive). It would be wonderful to have something like this work using open standards, but honestly, I don't know enough about it to make suggestions for how to implement. Sounds like a huge task.

Simple shared folders might not be too big to start with, and if you're using AD integration to authenticate, then maybe the administrator could assign permissions for AD users/groups? Or maybe without AD integration, for IMAP access, you could assign permissions for users on a domain.

Interesting ideas. Exciting features for possible future releases. No clue how to implement.

Daniel

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Post by martin » 2005-09-02 16:39

There's an IMAP extension called ACL which lets you define permissions on folders and to give other users access to your folders. Anyone seen a client that supports this?

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Post by theTerran » 2005-09-02 17:32

martin wrote:There's an IMAP extension called ACL which lets you define permissions on folders and to give other users access to your folders. Anyone seen a client that supports this?
How about a SquirrelMail plugin? That might be ideal for many in our community. Haven't tried it myself, but there's this one available: UserACL

This was developed as part of an email service provided by the Network Operations Center at the University of Athens (Greece). They use Cyrus mailserver, and the disclaimer on their site says the plugin has only been tested with that mailserver, but they also say:
The only requirement is an IMAP server that supports the IMAP ACL extension.
Would someone with a suitable test environment like to try it out and report their results?

Regards,

Daniel

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Squirrelmail offers the plugin

Post by ericbgreen » 2005-09-07 07:59

It;s on the front page right now it works with Cyrus IMAP right now for example. just need to add the functionality to the hmailserver IMAP. Would be awesome feature by the way. Was looking into way to do this myself.
1) Type of web server (Apache)
2) PHP version (5.0.3)

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This is a very important feature to me

Post by gtr33m » 2005-11-22 05:10

:!:
I currently use Alt-N's Mdaemon and would like to migrate to hMail, however this feature is integral to my mail server use as we have public folders which host all faxes that come in from different states in the country.

In mdaemon you can assign an email posting address to a public folder so that mail received to that address get's deposited in the public folder.

All clients have tried so far work with public folders if they are using an IMAP connection.

You do need to administer public folders within the interface. They can't be added by a user using an email client, and rights to the public folders have to be managed by an administrator, but this suits me fine as I would like to control who sees, modifies, deletes, etch from public folders.

I'm sorry I can't help develop in any way ( my programming skills are way too low level) but as a small business looking to use the software, I would be happy to donate. This feature is the one stumbling block in switching to hmail.

Thanks,

Mark
Regards,

Mark

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Pretty Please

Post by Jaco » 2005-12-12 13:59

Even plain shared folders without security would be very useful.

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Post by GlenC » 2005-12-12 14:17

Strange, I know I voted for this before... oh well, I'll vote again :)

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Post by mbach » 2005-12-12 14:19

I just read some news about Novell's Evolution v2.
They also released the Outlook connector (MAPI) under GPL.
As I am not a programmer I can only suggest maybe to have a look on it.... Maybe this can help to understand how "Public folders / shared IMAP folders" work or could be implemented.....

Thanks for your attention,

Markus

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Post by CraigHarris » 2005-12-13 12:54

Martin: You could implement it so that it just appears transparently to the client application as a normal folder to all people in the "group" that you define that folder for, updates will synchronise themselves using the standard IMAP protocol.

This would be really useful is implemented well.

I havn't looked at IMAP ACL, but I presume that it is just Access Control Lists.

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Post by benn600 » 2006-03-08 19:34

I really want this feature because I use this for my entire family so if I get an email from a family member, I could allow my family to see this. In the past, I created a distribution account to forward emails from certain people to all the accounts, but folders would be great. Imagine this:

Adding another item in the list (accounts, dist, alias) called Shared Folders and then list the folders there that are accessible. Then, have default be that everyone can add, edit, and remove but then have a permissions page where you could disallow certain activities to certain people, with wildcard support.

I would love this feature -- it is more useful if everyone on the domain knows eachother. I also would really like a server wide shared folders list because I personally use a different domain for my email than my family, so my account is listed in a different area than other accounts.

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Post by felipegeek » 2006-04-08 01:01

This would most definitely be useful in conjunction with Toltec's Outlook Connector. It gives Outlook the ability to store it's MAPI style data (calendar, contacts, etc) in IMAP folders. It requires ACL, UIDPLUS, STARTTLS, AUTH=PLAIN, AUTH=CRAM-MD5 support to operate. I figure for an entry point of 5-users for $70 that combined with hMailServer it would make a great 'Poor man's Exchange'.

-felipe

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Post by jpeoples » 2006-04-24 01:11

I would love shared folders...

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Post by chanas » 2006-04-27 21:22

It would be nice as a feature, but so far what I like about hMail is that it is lean & mean, no that bloatware Exchange has become.
I think features that are added should be mail server specific, and not try to make a simple mail server into a "collaboration suite" or something.

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Post by navin » 2006-05-30 08:36

I think sharing folders is useful. I end up running a small home business and I want everything I write or receive to be received by my partners in the business so they can follow-up when I'm on vacation. Right now, I have everyone set up as a distribution list that includes all our real IDs that are not public. So whenever someone sends us mail, we all receive it. However, when sending mail, it's difficult. Ideally I'd like a shared "Sent Items" folder that includes the collection of everyone's sent mail so my partners and I can follow up on each other's activities better. I used to think of an NNTP-like soluton where all my emails are copied to a private NNTP topic that lets me see "threads" of myself, the customer, and fellow partners discussing the issue but from the customer's perspective is just regular email. (most customers don't know how to set up NNTP - plus, I don't want customers to read other customers' threads).

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Post by martin » 2006-09-08 12:56

Anyone knows of a win32 email client that supports this? (I know there's plugins for SquirrelMail but I'm looking for a normal app)

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Post by theTerran » 2006-09-09 03:55

There may be some support already in Thunderbird -- see this link for a feature request to extend existing LDAP and IMAP ACL support. The entry says IMAP ACL parsing is already there.

Also, the once-popular Mulberry client appears to have been revived as an open-source project with community support. Though the documentation is sparse on the site, there is a downloadable reference guide with lots of promising material (see 5.4.5.4 Details: Mailbox Access, page 146 of 323).

That's all I see out there at the moment. Haven't tried Mulberry this century. :shock:
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Post by westdam » 2006-10-21 01:37

yep, thunderbird support shared folder, but i dont know ACL

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Post by FireW0lf » 2006-11-09 14:49

I would love shared calendars/folders to be added to h!

chanas mentioned above about h possibly becoming bloatware if you start adding loads of extra features, so why not just add a plugin iface, and add it as a plugin?

Just a thought...

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Post by mikey » 2006-11-09 15:36

Count me in for this great proposal!!

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Post by tazho » 2006-11-15 14:12

Would also help me with regards to GFI Mailessentials requiring a Public folder for SPAM.

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Post by ^DooM^ » 2006-11-15 14:36

FireW0lf wrote:I would love shared calendars/folders to be added to h!

chanas mentioned above about h possibly becoming bloatware if you start adding loads of extra features, so why not just add a plugin iface, and add it as a plugin?

Just a thought...
Plugin support is going to be added in hmail v5.0

That won't be any time soon though :)
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Post by CheapScotsman » 2006-12-08 23:52

Not having this is a show stopper for me.

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Post by DarkArc » 2007-02-06 13:48

martin wrote:There's an IMAP extension called ACL which lets you define permissions on folders and to give other users access to your folders. Anyone seen a client that supports this?
I believe outlook makes available permission dialogs if you claim to support it. (Right click, sharing)

I suspect it's also in thunderbird too, but only because it used to be in mozilla's mail client.

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Post by Slamlander » 2007-02-11 19:04

martin wrote:Anyone knows of a win32 email client that supports this? (I know there's plugins for SquirrelMail but I'm looking for a normal app)
Outlook does for sure and I am not sure by I think Eudora does as well.
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Post by [PT]Cableguy » 2007-03-20 14:29

martin wrote:Anyone knows of a win32 email client that supports this? (I know there's plugins for SquirrelMail but I'm looking for a normal app)
http://www.mulberrymail.com/
Mulberry wrote:3.7.3 WebDAV Calendars
Mulberry supports access to calendar hierarchies stored on a WebDAV server. Using
WebDAV it is possible to setup public, shared and private hierarchies of calendars on the
server to provide an ‘enterprise’ calendar solution.
Mulberry supports the WebDAV ACL (access control) capability to manage access to the
calendar files directly on the server allowing calendars to be easily shared with others, if
needed.
Mulberry will allow disconnected operations with WebDAV calendars, so that changes can
be made to a calendar whilst offline, and then sync’d up to the server the next time an
internet connection is available.
3.7.4 CalDAV Calendars
CalDAV is a new extension to WebDAV that is currently being developed. It promises to
improve the performance of WebDAV stored calendars by using a new data layout (each
individual event etc is stored as a separate item on the server) and new options to do smart
searching, event range retrieval etc on the server.
In addition, CalDAV will support server-based scheduling options, removing the need to
use email-based scheduling when users reside on the same server.
Mulberry has support for CalDAV, including the use of ACLs.
Does this helps ?
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Post by Slug » 2007-03-20 16:18

martin wrote:Anyone knows of a win32 email client that supports this? (I know there's plugins for SquirrelMail but I'm looking for a normal app)
Its in Thunderbird V2 (right click> properties >tab> sharing)

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Post by westdam » 2007-03-20 22:38

mmm
interesting michael, very interesting..

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Post by martin » 2007-04-22 20:06

Have anyone used this functionality with another email server? (Tried to get ti to working with another but no success). I've read through the RFC and it looks straight forward to implement it. What I don't understand is how users know which other users they can assign rights to.

The IMAP protocol doesn't seem to support this (no "list users" command), so it looks a bit like users need to know which other users they can assign rights to. Which would add an requirement that it must be possible to define "user groups" in hMailServer. Because it would be a real pain having to specify every single user in a large domain, for every folder you want to give the users access to.

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Post by martin » 2007-05-01 16:30

Now I've tested this with a bunch of different email clients but haven't found anyone it worked with. (I used another email server which already supports ACL for testing). So it looks like all those shared folders and permissions needs to be set up through hMailServer Administrator / PHPWebAdmin.

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Post by Slug » 2007-05-01 16:36

I kind of thought this would be the case, but I'm no expert on this type of thing....


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Post by ombizarre » 2007-05-08 17:05

The AVM KEN - thing can handle shared folders ...
Markus

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Post by martin » 2007-05-20 13:26

Sorry, but AVM KEN? Never heard of it. Is it an email server?

I've done some progress on this feature. Have added functionality for creating user groups and add members to these. They don't serve much purpose yet though. :)

The next step is to add settings to user accounts so that the admin can set up a list of shared folders using hMailServer Administrator. (The shared folders will always belong to a specific user account.)

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Post by gruenie » 2007-05-20 13:37

AVM Ken! is a German all-in-one-product for internet-services:

http://www.avm.de/de/Produkte/Fuer_Unte ... index.html

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Post by martin » 2007-05-20 13:39

I see..

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Post by martin » 2007-05-20 17:01

In hMailServer Administrator there will be an interface like this one where you can select which folders should be shared and give permissions to accounts and groups:

Image

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Post by Slug » 2007-05-21 02:44

Looks easy ....


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Post by westdam » 2007-05-21 07:49

great...

looks nice..

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Post by mbach » 2007-06-05 01:02

These are great news, Martin!!!

Would it be possible to use the folder view as well for creating/deleting folders and for creating rules?
(Also adding a button "duplicate" for copying rules..)

That would be much easier to configure scenarios...

Thanks a lot,


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Post by ^DooM^ » 2007-06-05 02:32

mbach wrote: (Also adding a button "duplicate" for copying rules..)
Got my vote on that idea....
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Post by westdam » 2007-06-06 02:29

any news ^?

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Post by martin » 2007-06-06 10:19

westdam, what type of news were you looking for?

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Post by Kaan1983 » 2007-06-06 10:21

Hey it looks really fine and something I can handle :D

But will The Folder Management be able in COM API ?

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Post by westdam » 2007-06-06 10:23

about this development.. i dont know if it's still in progress or maybe halted for client issue/compatibility..

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Post by martin » 2007-06-06 10:29

It's still in progress. It's planned for version 5. You probably see that if you read the thread. :)

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Post by westdam » 2007-06-06 10:30

hehe yed,i've read the thread, just curious to see if it was easy or difficult to implement.... that's all..

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Post by martin » 2007-06-06 10:38

Difficult, since I haven't found any clients which supports it and the folder management needs to be done using hMailServer administrator. Just a lot of work.

Kaan1983, yes it will be available in the COM API.

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Post by danny6167 » 2007-06-06 11:00

Maybe for the thunderbird users some one could make a plugin?

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Post by martin » 2007-07-11 18:33

I'm struggling a bit with performance for shared folders. Do some of you guys see a need for >1000 shared folders? If so, how would you use it?

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Post by Kaan1983 » 2007-07-11 23:47

If you assign 1 shared folder to each user; then there may be the need.

Just as an idea...

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