hMailServer X64 Bit Support

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ulas
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hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by ulas » 2008-06-01 22:11

I think that X64 Bit support will be best for better performance.

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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by Shiloh » 2008-06-02 20:00

Why do you think that X64 Bit support will offer better performance? Simply doing a 64 bit compile will not offer any noticable performance gains. The hMailServer engine would need to be reworked in order to get some performance gain from the additional memory available through a 64bit memory model. This would increase Martin's workload because then he would have two version of hMailServer to support instead of one.

If the engine is reworked to take advantage of 64 bit memory addressing and the server has a lot of memory, then it is possible that some gains could be had. For example, if you hosted a million email accounts, then 2GB (limit per process in 32bit apps on Windows 2003) of memory would probably not be effective for fully caching all of the users, domains, IMAP folders, and messages. In that case, I can see some benefit to using a 64 bit memory model and as much memory as will physically fit in the server (32GB, 64GB, or 128GB). But how many of us have a situation where this would occur?

How many hMailServer users even own servers with enough memory to justify using a 64bit OS? Of those who do, how many would want to run hMailServer in the 64bit OS? More often, the 64bit OS is probably just a host OS for a bunch of 32bit guess OS through some form of virtualization (MS, Zen, or VMware). In that case, hMailServer is most likely running in the 32bit guess OS, not the 64bit host OS.

The real question should be how many people would actually need to run hMailServer in a 64bit OS with 32-128GB of memory where the hMailServer process needed to be able to access more than 2GB of the available memory? I imagine the number would be quite small.

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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by ^DooM^ » 2008-06-03 09:18

ulas wrote:I think that X64 Bit support will be best for better performance.
Do you have a problem with hMails performance then?
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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by ulas » 2008-06-03 19:30

First of all , it is not mainly related to current Hmail Server Performance.
Even I have some points to say. I will say the end.

Firstly I want to give information about your concerns and ideas.
Shiloh wrote:Why do you think that X64 Bit support will offer better performance?
Yes, Shiloh , If you want to know what I am thinking, you can see detailed information at this link.
http://www.passmark.com/forum/showthread.php?t=261

I will write quotation about 64 bit performance.

" Overall we found the 64bit version of Windows 2003 to be significantly faster (about 22%). This seemed to be the result of two factors. Firstly Windows 2003 has by default some desktop visual effects turned off (fading menus, shaded windows, drop shadows, etc..). As a result the 2D benchmark tests gave a higher result than on XP. The second and more interesting factor was that the CPU benchmark results came in about 30% higher in Windows 64bit. "

I think this will give information about Why I am thinking to move X64.

Shiloh wrote: Simply doing a 64 bit compile will not offer any noticable performance gains.
Yes, you will feel the performance. extra information for my quotation. on X64 bit OS, Disk Operations have better performance than 32 bit OS.

Shiloh wrote: The hMailServer engine would need to be reworked in order to get some performance gain from the additional memory available through a 64bit memory model. This would increase Martin's workload because then he would have two version of hMailServer to support instead of one.
the engine. What is the engine? hmail server is not an engine. I think, You mean Hmail has main thing to work.
When I look at Hmail Source, there is no engine. there are a lot of Functions and libraries.

Shiloh wrote: If the engine is reworked to take advantage of 64 bit memory addressing and the server has a lot of memory, then it is possible that some gains could be had. For example, if you hosted a million email accounts, then 2GB (limit per process in 32bit apps on Windows 2003) of memory would probably not be effective for fully caching all of the users, domains, IMAP folders, and messages. In that case, I can see some benefit to using a 64 bit memory model and as much memory as will physically fit in the server (32GB, 64GB, or 128GB). But how many of us have a situation where this would occur?
I dont care millions , I care "billions and billions." Like Carl Sagan : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Sagan
Before giving answer your thougth , I want to share my experience about Hmail Server.

I want to use Mail List Feature of Hmail Server.
But I saw that more than 500 E-mail addresses , Hmail Server can give errors and cannot send e-mails.
before understanding this, I tried A lot of thing. Firstly, I added more then 1000 e-mail address.
and it didnt work properly. and I tried less and 1000 e-mail. It also didnt work properly and good performance.
I was tracing and understanding situation and I found problem. Before the sending mails, I want to sing e-mails with DKIM and I used perl language to do this job.
and I saw that singing takes really good time. for example, for 1 mail with 1 mb attachment, it takes more than 1,5 minute.

and I am saying again I dont care millions because I couldnt send at once with best performance.
and I had to change my decision for mail list, I used Gmail because It gives opportunity to send 500 e-mail per day. and I need to send 2000 people.
and I created 4 e-mail account and I sent the emails and I saw that it takes less time for my experience.

for me the real question , When I want to use my hmail server Why I cant send?
And I want to ask how many us can send e-mails more than 1000 people with DKIM include 1 MB attachment or less?
^DooM^ wrote: Do you have a problem with hMails performance then?
as you can see . Yes I have. it is not enough for me. and I tried to make better.
Shiloh wrote: How many hMailServer users even own servers with enough memory to justify using a 64bit OS? Of those who do, how many would want to run hMailServer in the 64bit OS? More often, the 64bit OS is probably just a host OS for a bunch of 32bit guess OS through some form of virtualization (MS, Zen, or VMware). In that case, hMailServer is most likely running in the 32bit guess OS, not the 64bit host OS.
I dont care people who do not have own server. it is not my problem. I care people who want to see and get experience performance of Hmail on X64 bit systems.
Shiloh wrote: The real question should be how many people would actually need to run hMailServer in a 64bit OS with 32-128GB of memory where the hMailServer process needed to be able to access more than 2GB of the available memory? I imagine the number would be quite small.
The real question should be how many people would actually want to run hMailServer in a 64 bit OS with 6 GB ram or less to get experience and benefits of X64 bit OS.

I want to figure the performance , If we have X64 bit version HmailServer.

for this : "The second and more interesting factor was that the CPU benchmark results came in about 30% higher in Windows 64bit."

"If I have 3 Ghz AMD Processor and X64 Bit software. When I use this platform, I will get performance %30 higher Than 32 Bit."

It means I can think that my software will act like running with 3.000 MHZ * 1.30 = 3900 MHZ CPU.

Why I dont use When I can get better performance?


Lastly , I learned that , moving X64 bit seems it is not so difficult.

http://extended64.com/blogs/rhoffman/ar ... 4/434.aspx

There are three ways to compile x64 code which can be loosely defined as 1) Compile with Visual Studio 6; 2) Compile with Visual Studio 2003; and 3) Compile with Visual Studio 2005.

for further details from same page :
http://forums.msdn.microsoft.com/en-US/ ... dc7b73d46/

I want to contribute for X64 bit version of Hmail and also general level of development but I dont know, how long does it take because Martin had a lot of thing as code blocks.
firstly, to do something I should look at them and than I can involve.

if There is a question about my wish , you can ask , I will try to answer and share my ideas and knowledge.

Thanks for everybody. Have nice day. and I am saying again I dont care millions:), I care ...

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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by Shiloh » 2008-06-03 20:07

That performance benchmark compared Windows XP 32 bit with Winodws 2003 64 bit. I am not sure that is a real valid comparison. If it were a Windows 2003 32 bit to Windows 2003 64 bit, the results would be much more compelling. Also, the benchmarks that saw performance improvement where 64 bit code (computing results of 64 bit numbers). Where in hMailServer would this ever happen? There is no need to process 64 bit numbers in an email server. The only need an email server would ever have for 64 bit processing would be to handle a much larger amount of memory. So simply compiling hMailServer for 64 bit is not going to boost performance 20-30%. Those gains would happen in certain scientific applications where there were 64 bit numbers that the compiler had to previously handle in two steps instead of one. But scientific calculations are simply not what email servers do.

The source you are referring to is what I was referring to as the "engine". In apps that have a service that is always running and separate GUI for managing the service, I usually call the service portion of the application the "engine".

Compiling it as a 64 bit process will not address issues regarding mailing lists of 500 addresses. That issue is probably better addressed through threading settings to allow for more messages to be sent simultaneously.

Simply compiling the existing code with a 64 bit compiler is not hard. In fact, you can do it yourself using the source code. The harder part is rewriting some of the core sections of code to really take advantage of the extra memory. There is nothing magical about 64 bit compiling. The magic is what you do with the extra memory. For example, if you have a server with 64GB of memory and hMailServer was able to use 60GB of RAM to cache message lists, user lists, and domain lists. This would speed things up a lot for servers that had millions of users and millions of stored messages.

But most people are not running servers with that much memory, or are using virtualization to split the memory into several smaller 32bit guess OS. In most cases, the best move is to split the email domains up between multiple VMs running hMailServer in a 32 bit guest OS on each VM. The only really compelling situation for 64 bit hMailServer would be one where there were millions of users in one domain. With hMailServer, there is no simple way to split users within the same domain between multiple servers. In that case, a 64 bit memory model could be helpful for increasing the amount of caching hMailServer could do within its own process.

I am not saying that there is no need for 64 bit solutions. We use clustered SQL Server 2005 for our hMailServer cluster. I see a use for a dedicated cluster of 64 bit servers to run SQL Server 64 bit, because the 64 bit version of that app is already designed to take advantage of additional memory. This would be especially helpful doing cleanups of the greylisting triplets table on really busy servers. But I don't see the same gains being made by using a 64 bit version of hMailServer.

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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by mattg » 2008-06-04 01:51

ulas wrote:I want to use Mail List Feature of Hmail Server.
But I saw that more than 500 E-mail addresses , Hmail Server can give errors and cannot send e-mails.
before understanding this, I tried A lot of thing. Firstly, I added more then 1000 e-mail address.
and it didnt work properly. and I tried less and 1000 e-mail. It also didnt work properly and good performance.
I was tracing and understanding situation and I found problem. Before the sending mails, I want to sing e-mails with DKIM and I used perl language to do this job.
and I saw that singing takes really good time. for example, for 1 mail with 1 mb attachment, it takes more than 1,5 minute
.
Mail list feature? I must have missed that in the documentation...
DKIM - again not implemented.
You say that you are using PERL to sing (?SIGN) e-mails with DKIM and that this takes time. How could this possibly be a hMailserver performance issue?

You are obviously not an average user, wanting to send 2000 emails each with a 1 MB attachment. Do you think perhaps the performance issue that you face might be one of internet connection speed - sending 2 GB worth of e-mail out over the net requires some pretty intensive broadband speed - much better than we could get anywhere in Australia, certainly impossible to obtain in a remote area like where I am.

2000 e-mail in a single mailout...sniff, sniff, sniff - smells like a spammer to me.

feel free to flame me in response - I'm big enough to take it (and dish it out too).

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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by martin » 2008-06-14 16:13

mitchN, so what happens during the time hMailServer uses 100% of the CPU? Are you sure it isn't spammers or something similar abusing the server?

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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by Sheff » 2008-08-17 04:26

Hi,

I don't want to sound thick ... but probably will ...

Doesnt Windows 2003 x64 also run x32 apps ... I have a load of x32 apps / 'servers' running on my x64 box.

My point is, that a lot of the speed increases mentioned (disk IO etc) are OS increases, not 'server' increases ... therefore surely the speed increase is there irrelevent of the x32/x64 status of the application / 'server' as it's dealt with by the OS.

So running hMail on an x64 platform even tho its x32 will still give you a speed increase (if one exists on x64 - thats not the debate I'm getting into).

The 'server' is in quotes as there more applications than servers, the server is the machine/os rather than the application such as the mail 'server' (hMail in this case). Crap use of terminology, but it's 3.30am so it'll have to do.

Anyways ... there probably would be a speed increase on x64 even if hMail is x32 due to MySQL etc in large installations, the OS having more RAM available to itself for caching, sticking other 'server' apps into etc etc without hMail being x64.

Yes for the future it will have to be ... sooner or later Servers won't have an x32 mode (like x16 vanished etc) ... but until then ... its probably just not worth the hassle. Maybe hMail 6 should be x64 only?

Cheers

I.

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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by Shiloh » 2008-08-18 03:06

Sheff: Yes, you can run 32bit apps on a 64bit OS. It works great and the OS is able to offer a bit better disk IO due to better caching of files. The original poster was asking about compiling hMailServer as a native 64bit app in hopes of getting even better performance. There are some specific examples where a native 64bit compile can offer better performance.

One example is when the application does 64bit math operations (such as scientific apps). In the case of a scientific app, a 32bit compile will often mean that the 64bit math operations are emulated using several 32bit math operations. By simply compiling those scientific apps as 64bit apps, the scientific apps will gain an impressive speed gain because the 64bit math operations can be done natively. Obviously hMailServer is not a scientific application with 64bit math operations, so hMailServer would not receive the same performance benefits of a 64bit compile.

The other example is where the application needs to cache many gigabytes of data in the application process. With some rewriting and tweaking, hMailServer should be able to benefit from using more memory to cache information that it would otherwise need to look up in the database. Simply compiling hMailServer as a 64bit app would not be enough. It would need to be compiled as a 64bit app and the caching structures used in hMailServer would need to be tweaked to take advantage of the additional available memory. And even then, hMailServer would only benefit from it in really large installations with millions of users.

More gains could be found immediately by running a 64bit verion of SQL Server as the DB backend for hMailServer than from recompiling hMailServer in 64bit. For most people, the DB server is more of a bottleneck than the email server.

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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by boen_robot » 2008-09-02 12:19

Has anyone tried to run 32 bit applications on a 64 bit OS with a PC that has 4GBs of RAM or more?

I have... and let me tell you that WoW64 doesn't cut it. At least on Vista Ultimate it didn't. Any 32 bit application (heck, even IE7 32 bit) crashed soon after it was opened. Only native 64 bit applications were able to run normally. I had to downgrade the PC in question to 2GB RAM to cure this, and thus force the OS to run in 32 bit mode.

Right now, I have another computer with Windows Server 2008 64 bit. Even though the OS is 64 bit, the server has just 2GB RAM (it's actually the same 2GB I took out from that other computer). I'm planning to upgrade it to 4GB or maybe more, however the experience with the above PC has me delaying the upgrade. Until I have all of my applications be native 64 bits, I'm not upgrading. The server in question is a web and FTP server (a free host of a sorts), and I use IIS7 for it because it's 64 bit (I'd use Apache, but it doesn't have a Win64 version yet). I want to also offer mail support, and because of that, right now hMail is a show stopper for the upgrade.

My point is that, besides offering a possibly better performance, having a native 64 bit version of hMail will also offer greather stability on 64 bit systems. So yes, I'm all for this.

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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by mbreitba » 2008-09-03 01:28

By downgrading your system to 2GB of RAM instead of 4GB of RAM, you are not forcing anything into 32 bit mode. Your system is still running in 64 bit mode even though it has less memory. What this sounds like is a symptom of bad memory or a bad memory controller more than anything.

I have successfully run Windows Vista Ultimate x64 on a system with 4GB of RAM, and 32 bit applications work flawlessly on that system. IE runs fine, PCAnywhere runs fine, Office applications, Media players, and even Apple Quicktime all run fine. If you're having problems with an x64 system with 4GB of RAM running 32 bit applications, and it works when you remove 2GB of RAM, the problem is with your RAM, not with the OS.
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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by boen_robot » 2008-09-03 13:45

RAM? I don't think so. As I said, the server has the exact same RAM I took out, and both computers work great now.

RAM controller? Yes, that seems like a possible cause. The motherboard in question was GA-P35-DS3L(rev. 1.0). I tried running the RAM in both dual channel and single channel modes. It didn't worked. Now, after checking the memory compatibility list, I don't see the RAMs I used (PQI 2GB 667MHz) in that list, so using incompatible RAMs could be it.

Still, native x64 applications worked, so point stands that native x64 applications are by definition more stable (i.e. run in a greather range of hardware) than x86 applications running in compatibility mode.

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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by Shiloh » 2008-09-10 01:19

boen_robot: The 32bit support within 64bit Windows is pretty good. I have run 32bit applications on 64bit Windows without any problem, even when the system has more than 2GB of memory. The situation you are describing sounds like a hardware related problem. I have seen some motherboards that are unstable no matter what OS you install when there are more than a couple DIMMs. I have not seen any server grade motherboards with this problem, though. I have several servers with 32GB in each of them that all work flawlessly.

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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by boen_robot » 2008-09-12 11:57

OK, yesterday, I had another computer with the same issue, however there are two very critical differences:
1. It has 2x512MB RAM instead of 2x2GB. Removing either one didn't helped (unlike that other PC).
2. The motherboard is different (EP-MF4ULTRA-3).

Similarities are in the symptoms and OS - Windows Vista Ultimate x64, 64 bit applications run, 32 bit applications (including IE 32 bit) crash soon after they are opened or upon closing. This has officially become the weirdest issue I've ever encountered. I have Windows Vista Ultimate x64 at home with 2x1GB, and it runs all of my applications (32 bit and 64 bit alike) great. All of the OSes examined have what were the latest Windows Updates at the time (including the yesterday machine) so Windows Updates can't be it.

I guess you're right, and it's a memory controller problem... now if anyone could suggest how exactly to identify an incompatible memory controller (and how to universally cure such problems while still allowing x64 applications), I'd be really greatful. If I knew in advance whether hMailServer would run on the server motherboard with 2x2GB RAM, I'd upgrade it right now.

Oh well, I guess my current plan (with hMailServer being in 32 bits only) goes like this - wait until 2GB isn't enough (i.e. when the server starts to feel sluggish because of too many clients. Right now it's fine, since only about ~60 people per day use it), upgrade to 4GB and if it creates a problem, uninstall hMailServer and install it on a second server with just 2GB RAM. If it doesn't create a problem - yupee!

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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by ^DooM^ » 2008-09-12 12:25

Memory problems are always tricky to identify and 9 times out of ten it is easier and cheaper just to replace it (vs. man hours trying to figure out wtf is wrong). Make sure your motherboard has the latest bios updates applied as well and that all chipset drivers are current. You can usually get those from the mobo manufacturers websites.
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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by mbreitba » 2008-09-12 17:39

It is highly unlikely that you will need more than 2GB of RAM. We are currently running 4GB of RAM in our installation, and it does not use all of it (in fact, there is 2997MB free, according to MRTG). We currently server well in excess of 15,000 mailboxes and process somewhere around 500,000 messages per day.
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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by Shiloh » 2008-09-15 17:29

One bit of confusion I think some people are having in regard to this 64bit topic is related to what is using the memory. On an extremely busy email server, the hmailserver.exe process will use less than 400MB of RAM. That is easy to do with a 32bit solution. Since hmailserver does not use anywhere near the max amount of memory for 32bit applications, there is really no reason to think a 64bit compile of hmailserver would improve performance at all. If hmailserver.exe was consistently using multiple gigabytes of memory, then a 64bit compile would make sense. Has any hmailserver user ever seen the hmailserver.exe process itself use multiple gigabytes of memory? I'm betting no. If I am wrong, please post a screenshot from taskmanager. I would love to see it. Remember, I am talking about the amount of memory used by hmailserver.exe, not the total memory used by all of the processes combined.

The real memory user is the database server, which runs as a separate process even if you install it with hmailserver. For example, a busy instance of SQL Server 2005 will use all of the memory that is available on the server until it hits the limits of the OS or the edition of SQL Server. For example, a 32bit instance of SQL Server 2005 Enterprise will use up to about 3.6GB of RAM. The 64bit SQL Server 2005 Enterprise will use as much RAM as there is available on the server. For example, if you have 32GB of RAM, the 64bit version of SQL Server 2005 Enterprise can use about 28-30GB of RAM (leaving some RAM for the OS and file caching). Since hmailserver relies so heavily on the DB server, nearly all of the scalability of the email server comes from the scalability of the database server, and you can already install a 64bit instance of the DB server on a 64bit OS. You can easily mix a 64bit DB server with the 32bit email server, and both can be run on the same 64bit version of Windows or they can be run on separate Windows machines.

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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by pd1748 » 2009-10-26 15:59

I really need x64 support so I am able to use the COM component is an IIS running in x64 mode
because at the moment it will not work without being native x64, as time goes on virtually all new servers will be x64, so it would be a good thing to do

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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by martin » 2009-10-26 19:07

Why not enable 32bit mode on the application pool?

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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by Shiloh » 2009-10-26 19:46

pd1748: I am not sure which version of Windows you are using, but the answer to your question depends on the version of Windows. If the COM object is being called on a 64bit Windows 2003 system, it is possible to set all of the sites to 32bit mode. I don't think it is possible to do a mixture of 32bit and 64bit within IIS on 64bit Windows 2003. For 64bit Windows 2003, it is best to Google for the Enable32BitAppOnWin64 metabase property. If the system is Windows 2008 64bit, then there is an option to set up 32bit app pools and 64bit app pools. With Windows 2008, it possible to run a mixture of 32bit and 64bit code within the same site using multiple app pools.

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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by martin » 2010-05-01 21:53

Simply compiling hMailServer in 64 bit won't make it any faster. If anything, the opposite is true. The executable has to do more if its running in 64bit compared to running in 32 bit. For instance, every reference to an object in memory takes up twice the amount of memory when running 64bit. So why would it, generally speaking, be faster?

Also, I'm not sure why a 64 bit process would have greater stability than a 32 bit process. I'm using a 64bit OS myself and most of the programs on it is running in 32 bit.

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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by Bill48105 » 2010-05-01 22:29

I think people make the assumption that more bits = better but like Martin said more bits = more work because the server has more data to chug through. Wondering if it boils down to if the app is "bit-native" or not more than number of bits..

Perhaps the issue could be as 64bit OS use becomes more prevalent *if* 32 bit apps running in the WOW64 "emulator" are less efficient or stable than native 64bit apps.. Of course memory requirements of the app come into play but don't think hMail needs GB's of ram. :D

Personally if 32bit hMail works OK on 64bit Windows getting a 64bit version is super low on my wish list. I figure there are tons of other more pressing things to get implemented/fixed at this moment.
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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by ocsnetworks » 2010-05-25 14:28

Here's a tip for the hmail server installation....
ONLY FOR 64-BIT SYSTEMS.....

*** MAKE SURE YOU MANUALLY DOWNLOAD & INSTALL ***

.NET FRAMEWORK 64-BIT EDITION
from Microsoft's Website....

32-BIT .NET FRAMEWORK WILL NOT INSTALL!!!!


This work for me on Windows Server 2003 R2 64-bit.

Thanks to the development team for the hard work on the hmail server.....

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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by martin » 2010-06-27 22:10

I will move this to archive in a week if no one can motivate why this is actually needed.

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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by dzekas » 2010-06-27 22:27

martin wrote:I will move this to archive in a week if no one can motivate why this is actually needed.
Memory. In WINx86 world users are limited to ~3 GB. In 64bit world SQL server can use more memory. User might install 64bit SQL server, but they still need 32bit libraries for hMailServer.

Are you sure that you can't create experimental 64bit build? Does it require lots of changes in code? Slight change in architecture might show programming mistakes that are not visible when you code only for one arch.

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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by martin » 2010-06-27 22:33

Sure, the memory is nice but that's not really an "end-user requirement" if you know what I mean.

I could create an experimental build, that might be a good starting point.

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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by Bill48105 » 2010-06-28 00:21

Since when does hmail get anywhere near 3GB?!? I can see SQL maybe but if you're so concerned with performance put SQL on a different box that is 64bit. ;)

I agree it could be nice to say hmail supported 64bit and if it was simple to change a setting & bam you have 64bit build then by all means plz release experimental build but to me even though everything is going 64bit fast I see many more pressing things that need to be done.. My 2 cents. :D
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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by Caspar » 2010-06-28 08:50

Please note that all programs will eventual need to be 64 bit, since ultimately the 32 bit (and 8 bit is already) will not be supported by Windows. Although i don't think it should be done immediately, since Microsoft can't afford to do that right now, I still think it should be an release in the future.
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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by ^DooM^ » 2010-06-28 10:45

I agree with Caspar, hMail will need to move over eventually. I can foresee new versions of of MS Server architects not supporting 32 bit in the near future.
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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by Bill48105 » 2010-06-28 15:33

Eventually is right. But Microsoft JUST did away with 16-bit support in 64bit Windows7 so what, it'll be like Windows 13 in 2039? :lol: So yeah *eventually* we'll all need to worry about 32bit going bye-bye but until then we have PLENTY of time to worry about it as it won't be for long long LONG time if you consider how long it took to do away with 16bit.

So guess it might depend on how hard it is for martin to get an experimental 64bit build done as to how quickly it happens.
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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by mattg » 2010-06-28 15:44

^DooM^ wrote:I agree with Caspar, hMail will need to move over eventually. I can foresee new versions of of MS Server architects not supporting 32 bit in the near future.
And this is well and truly underway...

SBS 2008 is only in 64 bit. Exchange 2010 is 64 bit only
Server 2008 and SQL Server 2008 come with both 32 bit and 64 bit disks in the same box...
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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by ^DooM^ » 2010-06-28 15:53

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/sharepoint/arch ... ments.aspx
We’ve heard loud and clear that you want system requirements information as early as possible to assist in your budgeting and planning, so today we’re happy to announce (and confirm) some preliminary system requirements for SharePoint Server 2010:

1. SharePoint Server 2010 will be 64-bit only.
2. SharePoint Server 2010 will require 64-bit Windows Server 2008 or 64-bit Windows Server 2008 R2.
3. SharePoint Server 2010 will require 64-bit SQL Server 2008 or 64-bit SQL Server 2005.
2039 eh?
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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by Bill48105 » 2010-06-28 16:17

Ummm. I was referring to MS eliminating 32bit WOW (Windows on Windows) support in the OS which is not going to be any time soon. SharePoint is a *program* (not an OS) that they will only be released as 64bit because it warrants (needs) it to function properly.. Last I checked hmail doesn't need 3GB of ram and runs on 64bit OS and would for some time to come, likely until MS does away with 32bit WOW but odds are hmail and 99.99999% of ALL apps would be 64bit by then anyway..

Soz but you're comparing apples & oranges but nice try anyway. ;)
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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by ^DooM^ » 2010-06-28 16:50

Bill48105 wrote:Soz but you're comparing apples & oranges but nice try anyway. ;)
There was no effort involved, google knows all. It's clear to see microsoft is moving away from 32bit as are hardware developers it would be foolish and short sighted to think otherwise. IPV6 has been coming for a long time, you could argue that you could use an ipv6 tunnel with hmail and never change it, yet ipv6 support has been added to hmail, I see x64 support as no different.
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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by Bill48105 » 2010-06-28 16:59

Transition to 64bit has been YEARS in the making.. It's not like suddenly there's 64bit and we better hurry up & change..

Btw, I'm certainly not arguing to NOT release 64bit hmail.. But at this point it's more of a want than a need (need as in required by OS or hmail consuming over 3GB ram) so to me it depends on how much effort it takes martin. If he can do it in a short time then by all means go for it.. If it takes him months to fix tons of bugs from it (I realize not likely just making a contrast) then please work on the 417 other more urgent feature requests waiting..

For all we know martin sat down, changed some setting & he already has experimental 64bit build ready to do & we're all going on & on over nothing. We can hope right? :D
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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by Caspar » 2010-06-29 09:48

And although you have WOW it is not as fully stable as the real version (aka the real 32 bit or 8/16 bit systems). Its true it will work, but in the future they will lose interest on making it always work with the newest version, and yes i know you still have program's written in Dos for windows vista etc, but most of they will have (and i know a lot do) problems running it.
Also note that the "8.3 naming convention" is not working any longer on Windows server 2008 R2 which was used a lot in programs even non-dos versions.
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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by RvdH » 2011-05-14 14:10

I'll add another 3 reason why it would be a good idea in my opinion to release a 64-bit version of hmailServer
  1. native mySQL 64-bit support (No longer have to swap the 32-bit libmysql.dll file)
  2. Compatibility with 64-bit AntiVirus Software*
  3. native COM component 64-bit support
* = A 32-bit application (hMailServer in this case) cannot interact with 64-bit AntiVirus Command line Scanner.
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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by rilex » 2011-05-15 04:16

Get better AV software. Most enterprise AV software (McAfee, Forefront, SEP) all provide x86 support on x86-64 platforms.

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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by dzekas » 2011-05-15 07:57

RvdH wrote:* = A 32-bit application (hMailServer in this case) cannot interact with 64-bit AntiVirus Command line Scanner.
Antivirus is external tool. hMailServer does not interact with it. hMailServer only executes command and reads the results. AMD 64bit architecture allows to run 32bit and 64bit binaries on same system. If 32bit process can't launch 64bit external command, then it is Windows and not hMailServer limit.

If "AntiVirus Command line Scanner" is full name of used software, get different one. I would stay away from software with no clear manufacturer identification or brand name. It looks like scamware.

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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by lmcintosh » 2011-05-17 22:23

For More Ram: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/283037

It is possible to execute 64-bit applications from a 32-bit application.

I will have to dig up the code i have previously used to do this.

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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by hung » 2011-06-18 06:12

I would like to use native kernel, not PAE
lmcintosh wrote:For More Ram: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/283037

It is possible to execute 64-bit applications from a 32-bit application.

I will have to dig up the code i have previously used to do this.

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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by snico » 2014-04-17 20:57

I need 64bits versions, because hmailserver.exe use more than 2gb or ram!
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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by Meister » 2014-10-28 13:34

I think, x64 support would be nice because in this case we could use the x64 bit client library for mariaDB too.

I think, soon a lot of server and client tools will be built only to x64 version.

Other important think is that x64 enviroment on Windows has a lot of new built-in security feature, which helps the system to handle hacking probes on an x64 process.


Microsoft has enhanced security in Windows 64-bit that is not available in 32-bit:

- Hardware-based Data Execution Prevention (DEP): Modern CPUs are now supporting hardware-based DEP but only 64-bit of Windows supports hardware-based DEP.
- Kernel Patch Protection (PatchGuard): One type of malware is called Rootkit. If you have 64-bit edition of Windows, you can enjoy protection against kernel-based rootkits. You can also avoid BSOD if you have 64-bit edition of Windows because PatchGuard does not allow any drivers to modify the kernel in Windows. Most bad driver or drivers that will modify kernel in Windows was seen the cause of BSOD or instability in Windows.

And see this:
http://support2.microsoft.com/kb/946765

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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by mattg » 2014-10-29 00:39

You can use the 64 Bit MariaDB already.
I use the 64 bit MySQL (Which MariaDB is a intended to be a drop in replacement) with my hMailserver.

You can use hMailsevrer on a 64 Windows OS already.
I have a 64 bit Windows 7 Ultimate machine that I run hMailserver on. Many 32 bit programs run on 64 bit windows. (Look at the programs installed in "C:\Program Files (x86)\" for a list of some 32 bit programs running on your system.)

hMailserver shouldn't use lots of RAM if you are NOT using CLAMWIN inline scanning. Linking to a ClamD service for instance should only increase memory usage of ClamD. The user in the post above had some 1000 - 1600 users simultaneously connecting via IMAP
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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by Meister » 2014-10-29 12:38

mattg wrote:You can use the 64 Bit MariaDB already.
I use the 64 bit MySQL (Which MariaDB is a intended to be a drop in replacement) with my hMailserver.
Yes, sorry. It was my mistake, I think about the libmysql.dll. The client part of the SQL.

mattg wrote:You can use hMailsevrer on a 64 Windows OS already.
I have a 64 bit Windows 7 Ultimate machine that I run hMailserver on. Many 32 bit programs run on 64 bit windows. (Look at the programs installed in "C:\Program Files (x86)\" for a list of some 32 bit programs running on your system.)
I know. I did not speak about performance, and hMailserver is on x64 server here. I spoke about the security feature of an x64 bit process. (Hardware supported DEP for example.)

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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by mattg » 2014-10-29 15:05

Meister wrote:
mattg wrote:You can use the 64 Bit MariaDB already.
I use the 64 bit MySQL (Which MariaDB is a intended to be a drop in replacement) with my hMailserver.
Yes, sorry. It was my mistake, I think about the libmysql.dll. The client part of the SQL.
Yes, you need to use the 32 bit dll to use the 64 bit database with hMailserver.
The database still works as a 64 bit program.

Meister wrote:
mattg wrote:You can use hMailsevrer on a 64 Windows OS already.
I have a 64 bit Windows 7 Ultimate machine that I run hMailserver on. Many 32 bit programs run on 64 bit windows. (Look at the programs installed in "C:\Program Files (x86)\" for a list of some 32 bit programs running on your system.)
I know. I did not speak about performance, and hMailserver is on x64 server here. I spoke about the security feature of an x64 bit process. (Hardware supported DEP for example.)
The link you provided was about 64 bit operating systems, not 64 bit programs.


What are you hoping would be different when using a 64 bit hMailserver as opposed to the 32 bit version currently available?
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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by Meister » 2014-10-29 17:00

mattg wrote: What are you hoping would be different when using a 64 bit hMailserver as opposed to the 32 bit version currently available?
- Hardware based DEP.
- 64 bit libmysql.

Anyway, I understand, that the current build can handle a tons of connections, with low CPU.
But if it would be lower, than we will be happy. And soon, if you support encription for emails, native AES and other thing from the modern CPUs will help to give the good performance.

http://www.viva64.com/en/k/0003/


But if it is more work than just add a new target to Visual Studio, then I understand why you try to avoid the x64 bit. But I suggest to build only for 64 bit, instead of build only for 32 bit, because Windows 2003 server was the last server operating system with 32 bit support.

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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by mattg » 2014-10-30 01:29

But Hardware DEP and other CPU / motherboard related stuff is affected by the operating system being 64 bit, not the software.

Windows 7 and Windows 8 both come in 32 bit versions
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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by taha12us » 2015-05-16 17:34

boen_robot wrote:Has anyone tried to run 32 bit applications on a 64 bit OS with a PC that has 4GBs of RAM or more?

I have... and let me tell you that WoW64 doesn't cut it. At least on Vista Ultimate it didn't. Any 32 bit application (heck, even IE7 32 bit) crashed soon after it was opened. Only native 64 bit applications were able to run normally. I had to downgrade the PC in question to 2GB RAM to cure this, and thus force the OS to run in 32 bit mode.

Right now, I have another computer with Windows Server 2008 64 bit. Even though the OS is 64 bit, the server has just 2GB RAM (it's actually the same 2GB I took out from that other computer). I'm planning to upgrade it to 4GB or maybe more, however the experience with the above PC has me delaying the upgrade. Until I have all of my applications be native 64 bits, I'm not upgrading. The server in question is a web and FTP server (a free host of a sorts), and I use IIS7 for it because it's 64 bit (I'd use Apache, but it doesn't have a Win64 version yet). I want to also offer mail support, and because of that, right now hMail is a show stopper for the upgrade.

My point is that, besides offering a possibly better performance, having a native 64 bit version of hMail will also offer greather stability on 64 bit systems. So yes, I'm all for this.
Yes, i did, i have 64 bit OS Dell 420 Server with 8 gb of RAM, hMail working very fine.. it some times takes long time to sync IMAP accounts more than thousands of email in inbox.

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Re: hMailServer X64 Bit Support

Post by martin » 2015-06-25 09:35

This is included for hMailServer 5.7 (not yet released, but you can play around with the build by downloading it from https://build.hmailserver.com). Extremely fragile at the moment because a lot of changes are being made. :)
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