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hMailServer for *nix/*BSD

Posted: 2007-08-16 12:45
by mrtechguy
Hey guys,
As the title suggests I am getting a server and plan on putting FreeBSD on it, however hMailServer is a windows server, thus making it so it won't natively work with FreeBSD. The reason I am asking this is I have finally found an excellent mail server that I like, and I don't wish to have to change away from it, however a windows server just doesn't perform as well as I want to to. Will there ever be a hMailServer for *nix/*BSD?

Cheers.
MTG.

Posted: 2007-08-16 12:50
by martin
> Will there ever be a hMailServer for *nix/*BSD?

There's no plans for it at the moment, (but there's also no way in the world anyone could give a secure response to that question).

Posted: 2007-08-16 13:37
by mrtechguy
Thanks for your reply.

Just to let you know, I love what you guys have done with hMailServer, keep up the good work.

MTG

Posted: 2007-08-17 06:48
by GotNet
I'm with you but hMail running alone on a server is how I found that Windows can be a stable platform. Now just need Webmin for Windows. :)

Re: hMailServer for *nix/*BSD

Posted: 2007-09-12 20:52
by mbreitba
mrtechguy wrote:Hey guys,
As the title suggests I am getting a server and plan on putting FreeBSD on it, however hMailServer is a windows server, thus making it so it won't natively work with FreeBSD. The reason I am asking this is I have finally found an excellent mail server that I like, and I don't wish to have to change away from it, however a windows server just doesn't perform as well as I want to to. Will there ever be a hMailServer for *nix/*BSD?

Cheers.
MTG.
How does hmailserver on windows not perform well enough?

Posted: 2007-09-12 21:54
by koncept
I have the same question as you mbreitba....if i remember right you have one of the largest installs here...

Posted: 2007-09-13 08:59
by mbreitba
Exactly....I'm wondering if there's not enough hardware there, or if something is mis-configured. For our user base, hmailserver on windows 2003 works great.

Posted: 2007-09-13 10:52
by iprat
On the other hand...

Has anyone tried to run hMailServer under WINE http://www.winehq.org ?

I have used it with some programs, with spectacular results on some.

WINE dev's claim that open source programs are always welcome to improve WINE because it's easier to track bugs to find which parts of the WINE API do not exactly behave as the MS Windows.

Well, I just haven't tried but I would probably need some help in how to execute a service in WINE, or how to execute hMailServer as a standard aplication (maybe there's no problem with that).

Posted: 2007-09-13 12:01
by iprat
The idea I propose is a way similar as how Google did with Picasa http://picasa.google.com, making the application automatically Linux compatible.

In this way the app developer only has cater for the Windows development, and try to not use strange win API's.

Posted: 2007-09-13 23:06
by bagu
hmailserver is the last software wich make me stay on windows :(

First test... not too bad

Posted: 2007-09-14 09:35
by iprat
Well I started with the most visual part of hMailServer, the hMailServerAdmin, as it can work with an existing windows hMailServer, I decided to try to run hMailServerAdmin in my Ubuntu install and when I succeed to control my Windows server then I'll try to install a local hMailServer also under WINE probably with a native Ubuntu MYSQL server.

I ran the installer, it worked flawlessly (except that it claimed that there probably was another email server running as discovered 25 or 110 ports already in use) and I ended with an hMailServerAdmin session open, all went right until I gave the user and pass and then the application claims:

"Class does not support Automation or does not support expected interface"

It claims this whenever I give right or bad authentication user/pass.

Any ideas where to begin to look at ?

I have not seen any easy help in the terminal session but I can stick it here if anyone wants.

First test image

Posted: 2007-09-14 09:51
by iprat
If you are curious for how it looks:

http://www.sapse.com/i/screen_hMailServerAdmin.JPG

Posted: 2007-09-14 12:37
by martin
There's no way you'll get hMailServer to run under Wine until they have fixed this bug:
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6155

Was reported some year ago and they have tried to fix it without any success. The wine developers seems to focus more on implementing APIs related to DirectX and gaming than some old core APIs. The APIs have been implemented in ReactOS, but since the Wine-developers don't like the ReactOSs developers policies they don't want to cooperate. Open source at its best..

Posted: 2007-09-14 13:12
by iprat
Well I'll try to add hMailServer to the list of applications that need IoCompletionPorts http://wiki.winehq.org/IoCompletionPorts

Posted: 2007-09-15 02:52
by plumsauce
For the record, I recommend against a portable implementation of hmailserver.

I have seen more than enough source code that had to be butchered to the point of incomprehensibility with #ifdef 's to switch between compile targets.

Multiple OS's mean that you get to favour 1 OS over another, or select only those features common to all OS's.

IOCP is a case in point. The scripting engine is another.

Posted: 2007-09-15 03:01
by koncept
mbreitba, can you maybe post a link or the stats on your user base again for these people that don't know what your setup is like? I'm thinking it might help show that windows is stable if not abused.

Posted: 2007-09-15 10:43
by plumsauce
windows has been stable since NT4 *if* it is properly setup.

my current uptime record for a publicly available W2K server monitored by netcraft.com is 495 days.

on day 496, an electrician pulled the wrong power cord at the data center.

the chart is now back up to 200+ days

Posted: 2007-09-15 17:42
by mbreitba
Currently we're at 7100+ domains in a single installation, somewhere around 25,000 users or so.

We do have some stability issues, and have to have some failover set up. Right now we believe that the stability issues may be coming from our SpamAssassin plugin, but we're too busy with another project to rewrite it. Someday we'll get it rewritten in C (rather than VB) and hopefully have more luck. We also only start having problems after it processes somewhere around 1 million messages (which it usually only takes 4-5 days to do). We simply restart the service every few days to prevent any problems.

Posted: 2007-09-15 23:14
by iprat
plumsauce wrote:For the record, I recommend against a portable implementation of hmailserver.

I have seen more than enough source code that had to be butchered to the point of incomprehensibility with #ifdef 's to switch between compile targets.

Multiple OS's mean that you get to favour 1 OS over another, or select only those features common to all OS's.

IOCP is a case in point. The scripting engine is another.
Well this is the main reason I think the best approach is to try to not bother too much Martin with this, let's stick with WINE until it works somehow and then the remaining issues will be discussed. Martin doesn't have to do anything.

I mean, I admit I have a small install, but I have not set up any scripting, so I just need ASSP and clamav and hMailServer, two of them run easily on a Linux server, so my real problem by now is to get IOCP, I've succesfully run some programs on WINE and no one has had to rebuild it's application to make it specially compatible with WINE. It's just a question of time IOCP gets implemented in WINE (I hope).

And at the end I have not any stability problem with my Win2003 Server install, it's just that I'm slowly but firmly pushing everyday to get rid of propietary software, and the OS is obviously one point to work also. I mean for me there's no hurry, I'll just monitor this on WINE until there's news about it.

Posted: 2007-09-28 05:54
by koncept
Has anyone tried parallels? I know it cost money but if it works that might make it a viable solution....I don't have access to a pc that has it installed at this time...

Posted: 2007-10-29 17:36
by Frog
Our mailserver install does over a million messages before it begins to throw any kind of errors - with extensive grey/black/whitelisting rather than spamassassin it's been even better, and this on a box it shares with a MySQL server, a MS SQL server and IIS 6. Stability and performance? No issues. Perl, PHP, ASP, Python, MySQL, MS SQL and a mailserver on one box - no worries!

Just a quick note:

proprietary

Relating to property or ownership.
Manufactured exclusively by the owner of intellectual property rights, as with a patent or trade secret. .

Just because it runs under linux or is 'open source' doesn't stop it being propietary software ;), and one individual or company having ownership of a piece of software also means they have ownership of the bug-fixing responsibilities, and the repuation which will over time, partly be built on doing so. Did you really mean 'I wanted a free OS, free mailserver and free everything else, so I'm leaving windows'?

Sorry, sidetracked.

I've got parallels and fusion, I'll try Parallels on the mac for it, but i think the networking interface would create a bit of confusion/CPU&memory usage!

Posted: 2008-01-25 17:32
by jlpatte2
As of 12/19/2007 supposedly the wine bug listed by Martin is actually fixed, It would be interesting to see if anyone can get hMailServer running in wine now that it is fixed!

Josh

Posted: 2008-01-26 15:02
by martin
Still doesn't work. There's other bugs/problems in Wine which prevents hMailServer to run. I reported one here:
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11343

There's most likely other bugs as well. It's possible for hMailServer to connect to a MySQL server now but the above limitation/problem has the effect that hMailServer cannot accept incoming connections.

Also, hMailServer Administrator does not run at all, probably due to some missing COM-related things in Wine.

Guessing they will treat the bug above s a duplicate of some other. Not even sure if the Wine developers sees this as a bug. It's functionality in the Windows API which they simply haven't implemented..

Posted: 2008-01-28 10:25
by iprat
In fact I have seen very often that bugs in wine are just unimplemented things in the Windows API. Specific dll design apart, much of their way of design is under demand, as it is very difficult to replicate all the Windows API without exact documentation of it, so as people claim for missing features in Wine's API, they get in a (large) queue to be implemented.

It's been just now in 0.9.54 update which I have finally been able to make a genealogy program I was using work completely with Wine without any help of original standard Windows libraries. Slowly but they're making progress.

Posted: 2008-02-29 02:04
by drtofu
For the record, I'd love to be able to use hMailserver on my intel mac server. This and Quicken are the only things I still use the PC for.

Posted: 2008-03-08 11:54
by cumberland
There are plenty of professional grade MTAs for every kind of unix already available, no need for another (especially not a closed source one) that doesn't bring anything new to the table.
Anyone who considers qmail, exim, sendmail etc. to complex to configure, should probably think twice about using unix/linux anyway.
And seriously: WINE? Who on earth would run his corporate mail server under WINE?

Martin, please don't waste your time and energy on another platform and continue to provide one of the best integrated and easy to maintain mail servers for windows.

Posted: 2008-03-08 12:36
by ^DooM^
Well said cumberland.

Posted: 2008-03-09 04:26
by drtofu
There's at least one person who would use it: me.

Perhaps you can point me to a OS X mailserver that's as easy to use as hMailserver? Until then, the only reason I have this windows box is to run hMailserver and Quicken.

Posted: 2008-03-09 04:47
by bagu
Me too for hmailserver

Linux is not so hard...
But it dislike user friendly interface.
That why hmailserver is really "the" good choice for those who don't want to waste time in reading faq and config files...
Hmailserver is easy to use and provide the whole services we expect in a mail server without headeck

If you don't agree with that, it's ok, but if someone ask martin to give linux users hmailserver, it will be good for those, like me, who don't want to waste their money to a closed OS and prefer to give it for community projects.

It's not a good way to say, we don't need linux because we don't want to use qmail and others...
Don't think we need it, try to think we like hmailserver. And because we like it, we prefer to see it on our os (linux)...And not want to stay on windows only for this beautiful product witch is hmailserver.

Posted: 2008-03-09 07:56
by dzekas
drtofu wrote:There's at least one person who would use it: me.

Perhaps you can point me to a OS X mailserver that's as easy to use as hMailserver? Until then, the only reason I have this windows box is to run hMailserver and Quicken.
Server that Apple bundles with MacOS X Server.

EIMS

Any other unix server. qmail+vpopmail+qmailadmin gives web based used management. courier-mta includes web management tools. postfix has postfixadmin. Unix mail servers are not click-and-go, but setup-and-forget type.

Posted: 2008-03-09 08:03
by drtofu
Mac OS X Server = $499 for 10 seats, $999 for unlimited. Also doesn't have greylisting.

EIMS.. uh.. no.

"Unix mail servers are not click-and-go, but setup-and-forget type." means that they don't meet my particular needs.

hMailserver has been the easiest to use that I've ever found, and I'm guessing you're in agreement since you're using it too. It would be a great addition to the *nix world.

Posted: 2008-03-09 08:10
by dzekas
drtofu wrote:hMailserver has been the easiest to use that I've ever found, and I'm guessing you're in agreement since you're using it too.
I am here not to use hMailServer, but to answer offtopic questions about some webmail clients.

I use Linux and don't run production mail servers on Windows or MacOS.

Posted: 2008-03-09 17:51
by cumberland
bagu wrote:It's not a good way to say, we don't need linux because we don't want to use qmail and others...
Don't think we need it, try to think we like hmailserver. And because we like it, we prefer to see it on our os (linux)...And not want to stay on windows only for this beautiful product witch is hmailserver.
I like Exim very much and would love to use it on Windows but i can't. There is no native win32 port available. You know why? Because it's a tremendous amount of work to maintain high quality multiplatform software projects - even for large corporations, let alone a single developer.
The core of hMailserver, the part that actually sends and receives the mails, does not have a single unique feature, that would justify all the additional workload another supported platform would induce.
All the great features like COM-API, J-/VBScript and AD integration are strictly Windows bound and would not be available anywhere else.

If it's only for the GUI, the time would be far better spent on a nice Qt-Interface for the already available Unix MTAs.

I'd rather have a 100% rock solid Windows-only hMailServer i can trust with my mails, than save a few bucks on a Windows licence and get yet another Linux MTA.

Posted: 2008-03-10 09:43
by bagu
Like you want, it's just not my point of view.
Apache is a good example to make me keep my point of view. :wink:

Posted: 2008-03-10 12:19
by cumberland
bagu wrote:Apache is a good example to make me keep my point of view. :wink:
Well, I don't know if apache is really such a good example. It took them years to come up with a stable version and there was no decend AND free webserver available for windows at the time, besides IIS, so "we" where actually waiting for apache.

Maybe i misunderstood you completly but i think to expect a unix port of hMailServer is the same as to expect a unix port of the IIS, if it's just because of the better usability.

Posted: 2008-03-10 13:18
by bagu
cumberland wrote:no descend AND free webserver available for windows at the time
It's your point of view...
And for this time, i never heard someone asking to port iis on linux, just because iis is copyrighted...It makes the whole difference.

But again, it's my opinion. Feel free to don't share it. But if martin decide to port hmail on unix or linux, i will be happy.
The only goal of this thread is to make martin know his mail server is so good that it can be a good idea if he can port it on linux or unix.
We don't say : "Martin ! You must port hmailserver" :lol:

So, if YOU or other think it's a waste of time, try to keep in your mind for us, it's a good thing.

Everything, only if martin decide to make the portage, witch is not the most important (in this point, i agree with you)

PS : if something is strange when you read this message, it may be because i'm french and don't speak english as well as i want ;)

Re: hMailServer for *nix/*BSD

Posted: 2008-07-09 21:30
by jlpatte2
One way to do this would be to run a small stripped down windows machine inside a vm in *nix. This works if you are trying to consolidate hardware... obviously doesn't help if you are trying to consolidate on free/open systems...

Re: hMailServer for *nix/*BSD

Posted: 2008-07-22 04:17
by JonnyBee
I agree with Cumberland - please continue with an excellent Windows application.

For those who 'dis' Windows 2003/IIS - I have found its usually because they either - never spent any time on it, don't follow secunia, dont know its NOT a webserver (like Apache), or all the above.

A properly configured W2K3/IIS6 implementation is almost bulletproof. About all you can do to it is DDOS bomb it, it has zero surface defects at the moment. And an intelligent router configuration will handle those attacks. I have servers that are up (other than occasional patching and hardware maintenance) continuously for years. I think its as stable as the good ole Netware 4.1 - where the joke was you could drop it down an elevator shaft.

I agree with everyone that hMail is an Excellent MTA - I used to use Imail (another fine product) on Windows boxes and was happy to pay Ipswitch's fee. hMail's UI might be called elegant in its straightforward design - the best I have seen - thanks!

jmho.

BTW - I'm not a 'Windoze' bigot either, I got System V certified in 1985 (waves his Unix System Administration Handbook), and was a System 390/MVS systems programmer. I 'do' Darwin too, LOL.. If it does the job well, I'll implement it...

AND YES I am older than dirt....

8) <-- overage hippy geek

Re: hMailServer for *nix/*BSD

Posted: 2008-12-23 20:44
by jaspreet.online2010
Hi There,

How about using CYGWIN in combination with

Apache2.2
PHP
MySQL
Proftpd
hmailserver
awstats
and even Webmin + Virtualmin

I am using this combination for last 8 months successfully running 10 Virtual Websites right now. Yes, i have to create some new kind of scipts for CYGWIN like useradd, groupadd, etc. all in Perl and even created a new kind of /etc/passwd file called /etc/plainpass to be used by Webmin + Virtualmin and did some serious editing of Webmin + Virtualmin Perl Code.

But atlast it works great.

You can even find a Webmin Module called TCP Connections that was submitted by me.

Anybody interested.

Have A Nice Day!

Re: hMailServer for *nix/*BSD

Posted: 2008-12-27 13:53
by caryb
My 2c worth, I added Hmailserver to the winehq app database tonight. To answer some questions posted above, yes there are squillions of *nix mail servers are they user-friendly nope! (I manage/install 50 odd servers at work in a mixed Windows/Linux environment) I have seen nothing even close to Hmailserver & it's development cycle. I don't believe Martin needs to focus on a "rouge" fringe group who want to run this fine app on Linux but that shouldn't stop us who want to see this happen. I run *buntu at home on my servers & lots of folks who I wouldn't call techie are using these distros because of the non geek usability. I think that the ability to run Hmailserver on Linux would be great & as Ubuntu is becoming mainstream (sorry my Windows friends) the combination of 2 user friendly apps is a good thing.


Sorry for the rant Cary

Just got this reply from winehq
Submitted test data accepted
-------------------------------------------------------
The test data you submitted for 'Hmailserver 518' has been accepted by EA Durbin.
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.p ... ngId=35197
Administrators response:
Thank you for your submission.
We appreciate your help in making the Application Database better for all users.

Best regards.
The AppDB team
http://appdb.winehq.org/