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 Post subject: hMailserver and ClamAV
PostPosted: 2010-05-03 22:21 
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I have just installed ClamAV from http://www.clamav.net/lang/en/download/win32/

Except I installed the 64 bit version as our hMailserver is on a 64 bit box.

hMailserver cannot auto find the paths to ClamAV and I cannot see Clam in the registry.

Does anyone know the paths to set in hMailserver to the ClamAV folders.

Currently I can see on my machine that the AV progam is installed in:-

C:\Program Files\ClamAV for Windows\1.0.26, we there is a program called iptray.exe there but it just seems to be a tray applet program, rather than a command line program or core utility/program.

I would welcome help as the documentation on hMailserver site help file regarding using ClamAV seems to be out of date and inappropriate and certainly hMailserver cannot find, via the registry, the clamscan program etc.

Cheers

SteveB


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 Post subject: Re: hMailserver and ClamAV
PostPosted: 2010-05-03 22:33 
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Hi Steve,
hMail only detects ClamWin otherwise you need to use "External virus scanner" tab & setup a command-line AV in there manually. I think you use clamdscan.exe but I'd have to look. There are lots of posts on the hMail forum about ClamAV but this might help:
viewtopic.php?t=6701

Btw just because you have 64bit OS doesn't mean you have to use 64bit apps.. If you have troubles try the 32 bit one. Or maybe your download was corrupt if you only have 1 exe for the tray app.. Anyhow, just tossing that out there.

Hope that helps.
Bill

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 Post subject: Re: hMailserver and ClamAV
PostPosted: 2010-05-03 23:23 
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Hi Bill

In reverse order.....

64 Bit. I know that X86 apps can be used on 64 bit machines but I did install the 64 bit version of what I understand to be ClamAV.

What is ClamWin compared to ClamAV?

hMailserver is hMailserver not hmailWIN or hMailserv, or hMailserverdifferentname.

AVG is AVG, Kaspersky is Kaspersky and so on.....

The actual clamscan thing......

There is no clamdscan.exe installed on the machine. Either in the normal Program Files folder or the X86 Program Files folder, path to ClamAV, or anywhere actually.

The actual AV program seems to be working fine, given I don't know where the virus definitions are - maybe the Cloud, as I read something about this.....

It's just the integration with hMailserver I want to get fixed as I have no idea, at the moment, if any email coming it getting scanned.

I'll have a look at the link you gave me anyway...

Cheers

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: hMailserver and ClamAV
PostPosted: 2010-05-03 23:30 
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Hi Bill

Just had a look at the link you posted.

It took me straight back to where I downloaded the program I now have installed on the machine with hMailserver, viz:-

http://www.clamav.net/lang/en/about/win32/ - i.e. ClamAV.

It also wobbles on a lot about "the Cloud" being used, etc. etc.

Also it seems Immunet have maybe taken over the product?

I wonder if the hMailserver link to Clam has been broken by events taking over and hMailserver not keeping up??

Any great input would be welcome.

Cheers

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: hMailserver and ClamAV
PostPosted: 2010-05-04 02:58 
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ClamAV is different to ClamWin.

ClamWin was just one windows port of ClamAV, but it was officially sanctioned byClamAV.

My preferred Clam port for windows is Nico's - http://hideout.ath.cx/clamav/
It comes as an installer and won't grind your server to a halt when it gets busy.
I used the ClamWin area of hMailserver AV settings, but you can use the external area too. See this thread (in it's entirety) for some hints viewtopic.php?f=12&t=13699

My reading of the ClamAV for windows page you mention is that ClamAv has only just changed (in the last few weeks) it's support for windows ports to the installer that you downloaded. This doesn't appear to be a ClamAV project, just another approved windows port. Given that most of us here thought that ClamWin was broken, it's not surprising that ClamAV went looking for an alternative. I don't read that ClamAv has been taken over by Immunet, just that the current endorsed windows port of ClamAV is the Immunet port. Sourcefire controls ClamAV, but ClamAv is open source...

If you wish to use the 64 bit ClamAV for Windows port that you have downloaded, then you should contact them for usage and configuration...

I agree that hMailserver should remove the specific ClamWin integration.

Matt

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 Post subject: Re: hMailserver and ClamAV
PostPosted: 2010-05-04 03:34 
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Hey Steve,
Looks like Matt covered most of the stuff in your last 2 posts but much of your comments are specific to "Clam" use vs using Clam with hMailServer. I agree Clam in confusing because there are so many versions/ports past & present. My reference to using 'external scanner' part of hMailServer was related to posts giving directions on how to setup clamAV clamdscan vs ClamWin which has specific tab in hMailServer. I'm guessin there isn't anything magical about that tab other than if you have ClamWin installed it should be able to auto-detect it vs you typing a specific path & ensuring proper command-line switches (including special "%FILE%" one where hMailServer passes file path of email file to be scanned) so it's meant to be easier that's all. I am leery of using anything but ClamWin on that special tab because of likelihood command-line options & return codes differing & then it no workie with little to go on.

Anyway, no matter which AV scanner you go for the key is to get it installed, find the command-line exe, figure out the command-line options needed & return codes it spits out, test it manually from command prompt THEN add it to hMailServer otherwise you'll be chasing your tail like a drunken dog. Odds are there are many posts from people who'd done most of the legwork that can help (keeping in mind some is old & outdated and perhaps mixing of the Clams) but with so many versions/ports of "Clam" you still need to figure out which is which, what you got and go from there.
Bill

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 Post subject: Re: hMailserver and ClamAV
PostPosted: 2010-07-30 11:40 
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Just to clarify a bit:

ClamWin is not broken, badly written or anything like that. It was just never meant for mail servers but for desktop computers. The problem is, that on mail servers ClamAV is called every time a mail comes in which means that, if ClamWin is used, it has to load all of it's signatures every time it's called which can be quite often at a mailserver. Now, if 5 instances of ClamWin are running in parallel it's no wonder that the machine looks as if it crashed. ClamWin doesn't use the resident ClamD (yet) because without on-access scanning capability it wouldn't make sense on desktop computers to constantly waste 100mb of memory.

As I've stated numerous times, it's a mystery for my why support for ClamWin was ever introduced into hMS because even the developers of ClamWin would agree that a loaded mail server is probably the last place where it should be used. Also the command line (CLI) versions are available since a looong time.

The cloud based ClamAV for Windows available at the ClamAV main page is also neither meant for servers nor as a replacement for the CLI versions. SourceFire has teamed up with immunet because..well..I assume because cloud based scanners are fashion nowadays and a CLI version is not really suitable for the average user. Also ClamWin isn't their project and they probably wanted a own ClamAV for Windows with a GUI.

There are also not that many CLI versions available for servers. There is the package by Gianluigi Tiesi (the main developer behind the ClamWin engine) at http://oss.netfarm.it/clamav/ and mine at http://hideout.ath.cx/clamav/ . I can remember that there was also a CLI version by sourcefire but I can't seem to find it anymore.

I hope that clears up the confusion (although I'm sure such issues will raise again as long as hMS natively supports ClamWin).

Best regards,

Nico


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 Post subject: Re: hMailserver and ClamAV
PostPosted: 2010-07-30 12:28 
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I believe it was added for the same reason a small DB was added, so there was an easy to use and setup mailserver without messing about. If you wanted to expand hmail's usage beyond some personal mailing then you use the tools to do the job. which is why there is an external scanner option and the ability to change databases.

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 Post subject: Re: hMailserver and ClamAV
PostPosted: 2010-07-30 12:43 
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Well, it might be that the original purpose of hMS was to provide a server for 'some personal mailing' but meanwhile it seems to have evolved into a server which is quite often used in environments with hundreds of users so IMO this option should be either removed (aka replaced with integration of a client for ClamD) or it should be clearly stated that it's not meant for mail servers which deserve to be called as such. I think you'll also agree that this feature has caused nothing but confusion in the last month.

Best regards,
Nico


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 Post subject: Re: hMailserver and ClamAV
PostPosted: 2010-07-30 19:39 
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Question: Is it common over here to remove half of a thread without any notice? If I've contravened against any rules of the forum I'm really sorry but of course I'd like to know. Otherwise I'm not a big friend of censorship.

Thanks and best regards,

Nico


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 Post subject: Re: hMailserver and ClamAV
PostPosted: 2010-07-30 19:46 
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Love getting my posts zapped.

I know why a MOD stepped in (not the 1st time I've lost numerous posts to a MOD's heavy hand) but the action seemed quite excessive IMO. For a small amount of text that was easily doomed for being off-topic or tone a large amount of posts by at least 3 people with relevance are now gone as if they never existed. Such a shame.
Bill

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 Post subject: Re: hMailserver and ClamAV
PostPosted: 2010-07-30 20:28 
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Bill48105 wrote:
I know why a MOD stepped in (not the 1st time I've lost numerous posts to a MOD's heavy hand)
Interesting, I don't. However, I'm spending a considerable amount of time with supporting people in this forum but if my posts are deleted without any notice I might be wrong here and should perhaps spend the time for something more productive.

Best regards,

Nico


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 Post subject: Re: hMailserver and ClamAV
PostPosted: 2010-07-30 20:46 
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tBB wrote:
Interesting, I don't. However, I'm spending a considerable amount of time with supporting people in this forum but if my posts are deleted without any notice I might be wrong here and should perhaps spend the time for something more productive.

Best regards,

Nico


Guess me saying 'know' was strong & 'suspect' would have been better choice of words but suppose not really important eh.

I feel your pain, I spend considerable amount of time supporting people here as well and I don't even use hmail. lol As I said, it's happened to me a few times now & I've been warned (after the fact of course) so perhaps this time was because of me as well but hard to say when MOD's don't even bother with warnings.

I've been told numerous times by MOD's before the forums should be used for helping people with hmail & not bickering on about personal opinions and that any posts that sway will be deleted no matter who they are posted by or if there is valid content. Guess they feel the need to keep their word. ;)

Frustrating part is most of the content of the posts was related to clam in hmail and therefore relevant and not off-topic so should not have been axed IMO but alas I'm not a MOD & have no say.

Countdown to these posts being deleted as well & the thread being locked.. 3..2..1.. BOOM! BYE-BYE!
Bill

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 Post subject: Re: hMailserver and ClamAV
PostPosted: 2010-07-30 23:39 
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The purpose of a forum.....

For people to help each other.

In this issue the question was how to make Clam AV work in HMS. All the threads lead to questions and answers etc. etc.

Everyone, from time to time, needs help with clarity in the mind on how to make things work.

My case - I am a good web site writer, can handle mail servers (commercial ones) and migrated to HMS, all set up running well but with questions along the way - specific to HMS, which is different to the product I also use - MDaemon.

So I had a problem with Clam as an AV solution, previously used AVG but wanted to use an open source product.

So I asked the question:-

Anyone give advice what to use if issues abound on ClamAV or Clam Win or what ever "Clam" is available.

So sorry to wind anyone up - that's not the intention - just keen to find an acceptable solution that is known to work. I know what the solutions are for MDaemon but was looking for advice on HMS.

Lets not forget we all have experience/capability in various areas. One person may be good at "X" another at "Y" and another at "Z" and so on.

Surely it's best we just help each other.

In the end it's best and good for the product: HmailServer!

:-)

Cheers

S


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 Post subject: Re: hMailserver and ClamAV
PostPosted: 2010-07-31 00:01 
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I suspect hmail will soon have native clamd client support built in & the AV answer will be more clear-cut and we'll all cheer for joy no matter if clamwin tab exists or not. For extra measure the ClamWin tab can have a checkbox that says "I understand this should not be used other than for testing" which should scare people off. lol

Nico, you volunteering to post up a detailed beginner's step-by-step how-to on using your clam package with hmail when that happens? :D
Cheers!
Bill

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 Post subject: Re: hMailserver and ClamAV
PostPosted: 2010-07-31 02:55 
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All the posts were way off topic, I cleaned the thread up. I apologise if that annoyed people but please stay on topic.

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 Post subject: Re: hMailserver and ClamAV
PostPosted: 2010-07-31 03:07 
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^DooM^ wrote:
All the posts were way off topic, I cleaned the thread up. I apologise if that annoyed people but please stay on topic.

The topic is Clam AV on hmailserver & that's what the posts were discussing.
By deleting them it turned it off topic as the posts turned to what happened.
I disagree but we each have our own opinion so I'll leave it at that.
Bill

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 Post subject: Re: hMailserver and ClamAV
PostPosted: 2010-07-31 11:45 
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^DooM^ wrote:
All the posts were way off topic, I cleaned the thread up.

Strange, because the part of the thread you've deleted contained at least two posts by yourself.

^DooM^ wrote:
I apologise if that annoyed people

OK, thanks. Let's leave it at that and move on.

Bill48105 wrote:
Nico, you volunteering to post up a detailed beginner's step-by-step how-to on using your clam package with hmail when that happens? :D

Yes, I've already offered to do that in another thread. The next ClamAV version will be also much easier to install. I've modified the service creation code to include the --config-file=path/file parameter and the installer will also offer to install the ClamD/FreshClam services (also with the correct parameters).

Best regards,

Nico


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 Post subject: Re: hMailserver and ClamAV
PostPosted: 2010-07-31 15:41 
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tBB wrote:
Yes, I've already offered to do that in another thread. The next ClamAV version will be also much easier to install. I've modified the service creation code to include the --config-file=path/file parameter and the installer will also offer to install the ClamD/FreshClam services (also with the correct parameters).

Best regards,

Nico

OK cool. Yeah I recall you mentioning that in another thread so I actually got around to trying your version & all went very smoothly on an XP test box. Toughest part was installing the service which wasn't all that tough as I'm used to such things but being done in installer would rock for 1st timers. Once freshclam had done its thing I was rolling so pretty simple overall. The 140MB RAM + 138MB SWAP used made me gasp but I realize the virus defs loaded all the time is a good thing vs loading over & over especially for server environment so perhaps that reminder should be made during the installer or on the site to avoid people whining about memory usage. Just a suggestion. :)

So with your changes you've mentioned & if hmail clamd settings defaulted to 127.0.0.1/3310 it should be dead simple for even n00b to get it running besides firewall issues possibly which I didn't run into but others might especially with 3rd party ones.

Looking at the default config values users probably should be warned to not set max message scan size in hmail above the max size in clam (looks like default is 10MB) along with connections/queue/thread values between the 2 that make sense to avoid issues. I know with my centos clamd being called by another mail server I can get hung up connections, timeouts or fallback to unscanned emails with the wrong settings so I assume the same would happen with hmail as well.

Anyhow, looking good! I'm certainly excited to see the 2 come together. Now I'm off to beat up your clamd to see if I can make it break. :D
Thx
Bill

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 Post subject: Re: hMailserver and ClamAV
PostPosted: 2010-07-31 18:35 
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Bill48105 wrote:
The 140MB RAM + 138MB SWAP used made me gasp but I realize the virus defs loaded all the time is a good thing vs loading over & over especially for server environment so perhaps that reminder should be made during the installer or on the site to avoid people whining about memory usage. Just a suggestion. :)

The next version of ClamAV will also use way less memory. With the current set of default signatures ClamD uses 86 Mb :)

Best regards,

Nico


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 Post subject: Re: hMailserver and ClamAV
PostPosted: 2010-08-20 10:28 
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Bill48105 wrote:
So with your changes you've mentioned & if hmail clamd settings defaulted to 127.0.0.1/3310 it should be dead simple for even n00b to get it running

As it seems my installer now does it's job quite fine including installation of the services etc. so, as it's now really a no-brainer I'm not sure if there is still a HowTo needed? I wouldn't even know what to write there except 'start the installer, use the default dir and click next until it's finished' or something :)

Best regards,

Nico


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 Post subject: Re: hMailserver and ClamAV
PostPosted: 2010-08-20 11:12 
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Nico
Well it install over previous versions? How about clamsup? Is it separate still

Thanks
Bob E


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 Post subject: Re: hMailserver and ClamAV
PostPosted: 2010-08-20 11:21 
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bescher wrote:
Well it install over previous versions? How about clamsup? Is it separate still

It will install over previous versions but it's not recommended because then you will have several uninstaller executables in the ClamAV dir. If you used the installer to install the previous version you can as well just download the 7z archive and unpack it to the ClamAV dir (after stopping the services, of course).

The ClamSup script is and will always be a separate tool. The third party signatures have nothing to do with the main ClamAV signatures (hence the name) :)

Best regards,

Nico


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 Post subject: Re: hMailserver and ClamAV
PostPosted: 2010-08-20 16:09 
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tBB wrote:
Bill48105 wrote:
So with your changes you've mentioned & if hmail clamd settings defaulted to 127.0.0.1/3310 it should be dead simple for even n00b to get it running

As it seems my installer now does it's job quite fine including installation of the services etc. so, as it's now really a no-brainer I'm not sure if there is still a HowTo needed? I wouldn't even know what to write there except 'start the installer, use the default dir and click next until it's finished' or something :)

Best regards,

Nico

Not had a chance to try it myself with my "beginner's hat" on but will let you know. Now we wait for 5.4 to be released and will be exciting to see them work together efficiently. :D
Thanks Nico!
Bill

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