SpamAssasin Integration

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Do you need this feature?

Yes
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82%
No
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Total votes: 102

zbuford
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SpamAssasin Integration

Post by zbuford » 2005-08-30 20:22

This isn't absolutly required, but it would probably help alot of new users to simply have spamassasin integrated into hmailserver instead of having to set it up manually through scripts.

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Post by martin » 2005-08-30 20:27

Do you mean that it should be integrated into the installation so that you don't have to do anything at all? Or do you mean that it should be someway to "auto-configure" it just as for ClamWin?

I've never tried to set it up, but to me it looks like the big part of using SA with HMS is to install Perl, SA, NMake. From hMailServers point of view, you only have to (if you follow the how-to) place a file in a directory and let hMailServer run that once for every message.

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Post by zbuford » 2005-08-30 20:58

Have it auto-configured like ClamWin and integrated into the installation, so all a new user would have to do is click a check box to enable spamassasin. There are quite a few Windows mail servers that integrate spamassasin. (http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/CommercialWindows)

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Post by martin » 2005-08-30 21:03

I don' really like that idéa.. If it would be integrated into the installation, it would more than double the installation size. Also, I don't know where to find a perl installation that I may include..

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Post by Julien@TLD » 2005-09-13 12:40

I think also that an integration of an external antispam tool like SpamAssassin would be a great feature. The size of the installation file is not a problem but I know the real problem is the integration of the perl module. Perhaps a very basic and light perl installation exists?

For me, the actual antispam features in hMailServer are unfortunately a little insufficient. It's would be great to define rules to mix the different options. Per exemple, the possibility to delete a message only if the server is found in 2 black lists or 3 etc and not only in one. What do you think of that feature? It will diminue the number of fale positives.

Martin, thanks you for your work!

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Post by martin » 2005-09-13 18:54

> The size of the installation file is not a problem

I don't want hMailServer to become bloated. Just because size isn't a problem for you, doesn't mean that it isn't a problem to the rest of the world. Some users may prefer ASSP, some may prefer SpamAssassin, and some may prefer another solution.

But this doesn't really matter if there's no GPL-licensed Perl module for Windows.

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Post by Sune » 2005-09-22 00:07

As a new user i would like to state my point of view too :)

It seems like you want to keep it very simple, which i understand and respect, but would it be too much to require people manually to download and install for instance ActivePerl if they wanted to use the build-in spamassasin?

Personally i would really like as much options of filtering etc. as possible to be included in my mail server (or well, especially software like Spamassasin). Spam- and virus filtering are some of the primary features of mail servers these days seen from my point of view.
If it's because you want to keep it simple then keep in mind people looking for simple mail server solutions, don't necessarily want to set up advanced filter solutions themselves.

I really can't see why the size of the size of the installation file is a big issue, it's a one-time deal to download it and you don't choose your mail server from the size of the file you have to download (unless it's very very big of cause).

I'm not sure exactly what you need, but perhaps niPerl covers your needs (it's released under GPL):
http://www.numeninest.net/Perl/

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Post by FAWTS » 2005-09-22 02:05

I tried to install SA, but I gave up. The problem wasn't PERL installation as I use ASSP and AWstats who need it too, but the how to of SA is so a mess that there is no way to find what you did wrong. I didn't have any problem with ASSP and it works perfectly!

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Post by GlenC » 2005-09-22 15:32

The problem with the SA How-To is that it covers too much and that makes it confusing. Setup is different depending on whether or not you use Activestate Perl or Cygwin, whether you execute SA directly or use the Daemon, SQL database or standard Bayes, then whether to use global rules or per user rules. And that is just what I can think of off the top of my head!

Kerio mailserver had SA integrated, my memory isn't too good about how it was done but I think they somehow made windows binaries (or DLLs). That brought the overhead down quite a bit.. I don't remember the SA part of the install being very large at all. That could be done for hMail too I would think. The only problem I would see with this is that the configuration would be pretty much fixed, and you would probably have to add a whole new forum for SA feature requests.

EDIT: I just recently installed 3.1.0 Once I get all the bugs worked out with my install I'lll try to put together a SA/Cygwin How-To.

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Post by zbuford » 2005-09-24 14:00

Maybe have a stand alone installation that requires that Perl already be installed and does all the configuration with Hmailserver? That way you don't have to worry about Perl, or bogging down the Hmailserver installation.

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Post by iprat » 2005-09-28 09:56

I think the best solution would be to prepare an easy to install package to install Spamassassin or ASSP integrated with hMailServer.

This way you could donwload and install a light hMailServer, and afterwards you could donwload and install a prepared and nearly "one-click" installation of ASSP or Spamassassin, wichever is easier and lighter to install side-by-side with hMailServer.

Best regards,

Ignasi

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Post by pskeete » 2005-10-28 05:23

most email clients have somekind of spam filter included, in my experience its better to let users define their own spam settings. I would not go beyond dns blacklisting within hmailserver.

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Post by ^DooM^ » 2005-10-28 19:18

I agree with pskeete.

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Id like to see spamassasin as a checkbox

Post by Pern » 2006-09-10 00:53

id like to see spamassasin as a checkbox, just so it uses the routine...

make it so it has to have a path and file name placed just like the antivirus other is. just so it looks ofr a return code and auses it if a user want to install it they can and use it if they want more then use a script..but basic use would be really nice via the program like anti virus does
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Post by bazporter » 2006-09-10 11:46

The problem with trying to add SpamAssassin support to hMailServer is that everybody will implement their system slightly differently and there is no way to cater for all eventualities.

The easiest SA install for Windows is to get the pre-compiled binary from here: http://physics.ucsd.edu/~epivovar/SpamA ... -win32.zip created by Eugene Pivovarov. It contains SpamC/SpamD and SpamAssassin, all as .exe with Perl compiled into them. All you have to do is extract the zip file to a convenient location (C:\sa for example) and run SpamAssassin from there. The nice thing about this build is that Razor and DCC support are built in.

If you want to run SpamD/SpamC then you will want to run SpamD as a service (I use the old free version of FireDaemon http://www.firedaemon.com for this) and add the following parameters for the service:

Code: Select all

--configpath="c:\sa\share\spamassassin" --siteconfigpath="c:\sa\etc\spamassassin" --syslog="c:\logs\SpamD.log" --username="username_to_run_as" --allow-tell
All you need to add to your EventHandlers.vbs script is the commands to call SpamC. Something like:

Code: Select all

sub OnDeliverMessage(oMessage)
	' Use SpamC (true) or SpamAssassin (false)
	const cUseSpamC = true

	set oFSO = createObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject")
	set oWSO = createObject("WScript.Shell")

	' Capture the message filename
	sFname = oMessage.filename

	' Check if the input file really exists
	if not oFSO.FileExists(sFname) then
		Result.Value = 0
		exit sub
	end if

	oInfile = oFSO.GetAbsolutePathName(sFname)
	oTestfile = oInfile & ".tmp"
	oFSO.CopyFile oInfile, oTestfile

	' Create command strings
	cmdSA = "cmd /c C:\SA\spamassassin --configpath=c:\sa\share\spamassassin --siteconfigpath=c:\sa\etc\spamassassin < """ & oTestfile & """ > """ & oInfile & """"
	cmdSC = "cmd /c C:\sa\spamc < """ & oTestfile & """ > """ & oInfile & """"

	if cUseSpamC = true then
		' Run SpamC
		rcSC = oWSO.Run(cmdSC , 0 , true)
	else
		' Run SpamAssassin
		rcSA = oWSO.Run(cmdSA , 0 , true)
	end if

	' Failsafe: In the event an error causes a zero byte msg
	if oFSO.GetFile(oInfile).Size = 0 then
		oFSO.CopyFile oTestfile, oInfile
	end if

	oFSO.Deletefile oTestfile
	Result.Value = 0

	set oFSO = nothing
	set oWSO = nothing
end sub
Hope this helps
--
Regards
Barry
Last edited by bazporter on 2006-09-10 14:47, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by theTerran » 2006-09-10 13:01

This sounds like a nice plugin to be maintained by contributors in the hMailServer community (assuming plugin support is added in v5 of hMailServer). Maybe scripts to make it work with hMailServer + compiled Windows binaries. That way another product is not combined with hMailServer (with all the trouble that can bring) but the option could still be available for easy "integrated" install.

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Post by bazporter » 2006-09-10 13:23

Good idea...

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Pern
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Heres what i was talking about for intergration

Post by Pern » 2006-09-10 17:00

You are all talking about adding things like assp(or what ever its called) and spamassasin things, no you dont have to add it as a package nor give support for it, have a blurb in the docs and in a help/readme.txt file type thing saying for all and any info regaurding 'said item' please goto there web site, if it has to do with hmailserver then try our forums maybe someone can help you out. thats all you have to do said and done no gaurintees etc etc etc.

now on to what i was talking about intergrating spamassasin into hemailserver.

this is takin from my program i made for argosofts email server (yes before you ask im going to make some things for hmailserver too all ready have the website domain reged and im looking into makeing a few scripts too{Altho it seams martin not only takes sugestions but actualy puts them into it...really nice of you martin,pats you on your back for not only doing the program,nice btw, but also for listening to your users, thats very hard to do sometimes, but it does not look like a site addition is really needed, but i like to add contribs to things so im gonna make a few for this, plus theres a few ideas i have, i want to try my hand at too})

now heres the intergration for spam assassin one more time as ive tryed to do that twice now tell you about it and i got side tracked

http://argodragonsoftware.info/ArgoDrag ... sassin.PNG
i think it shouls look for a directory its pointed to and fire off the program for it i made a bat file {Spammassassin.bat}myself and looked for that, this way i have links to it to get the program both as an install and as the website for intergration, the link above would be grate for this with perl with it.

the argosoft links where(just incase others what to see it)
http://spamassassin.apache.org/ we all should know this one by now
and
http://www.openhandhome.com/howtosa.html a nice page for win32 users

welp hope this helps clear up my idea on this and my suggestion a bit.
Last edited by Pern on 2006-09-12 17:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by paulhaskew » 2006-09-11 19:00

The ability for simplicity is always wanted, but at what costs? I believe they have been addressed already by the above.

The note about v5 supporting plugins sounds like the most reasonable and least bloating option available. One good example of this Trillian. No, its not a free program, BUT, they do not claim any support for plugins written by community members.

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Post by Shiloh » 2006-09-16 02:45

Integrating SpamAssassin into hMailServer is just a recipe for bloatware, because SpamAssassin is huge. A better idea would be to integrate the SpamC code (which is quite small) into hMailServer. Then have an option to set the IP of the SpamD server. Then have another field per user so the threshold for dropping email could be set on a per user basis instead of using some global value. Basically the SpamC code will ask SpamD to read the message and assign a score. Then hMailServer could judge what to do with each scored message based on the thresholds each user has set.

If this were done, then admins could set up SpamD on the email server or on another box. Email admins could even set up a cluster of SpamD boxes for this task without bloating hMailServer, because the only code added to hMailServer would be the tiny SpamC code and some simple logic code for deciding what to do with email once SA scores it.

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NO NO NO NO! just allow for it to be used

Post by Pern » 2006-09-17 02:16

just allow for spam assassin to be fired off like the antivisus stuff is..thats all no code youll have to go install it your self etc etc etc...why you all are saying ot add it to hmailserver and to give supoort to it...no no no no NO!

just allow it to be used is all..and capture the return codes is all
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Post by westdam » 2006-09-17 12:51

mmm martin and what about the possibility to add " paranoid " spam detector??
it's like spam assassin but on windows is more faster.
http://www.sssolutions.net . it should be not so difficult to implement..
i'm using it on argo and xmail.

byez
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Post by Shiloh » 2006-09-18 18:30

Here is a direct link to the topic I started about an extremely effecient way to link to SpamAssassin from hMailServer:
http://www.hmailserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4268

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Post by Shiloh » 2006-11-15 17:09

Here is a link to a poll about integrating the SpamC section of SpamAssassin into hMailServer, so hMailServer could quickly connect to an instance of SpamD.
http://www.hmailserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4268

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Post by nebo » 2006-11-26 21:14

I totally agree with you Shiloh! Spamassassin and hMail should NOT be integrated. I too would like to see the SpamC client feature implemented in hMailServer. This way one could set up a separate SpamD server, or even a farm for that matter, to handle spam scoring efficiently.

hMailServer should only need to bother with sending messages to SpamD and then taking appropriate actions depending on the score/result. Having account-level, or even alias level, spam cut-off levels would be truly great.

Since ClamAV also has its own daemon a similar approach with the ClamAV part of hMailServer would also be great.

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Post by nikolasd » 2006-12-11 12:39

Although SA is considered of the best, I preffer the ASSP solution, which i find much faster and stable on Windows than SA. If this feature is to be implemented i would like to be a download without SA as well and of course an option to not install it.

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Post by mbreitba » 2006-12-12 02:10

Niko - what we're asking for is a SpamAssassin client to be integrated into Hmailserver. This would not be full-blown SpamAssassin, it would only be the ability to contact a SpamD server to process a message, and receive the result.

The proper way to do SpamAssassin is to run SpamD on a backend FreeBSD or Linux system. SpamAssassin was originally written for Linux/BSD, and seems to perform much better in those environments versus running in a windows environment.

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Post by nikolasd » 2006-12-12 21:39

@mbreitba: if that is the case, then i agree to implement this on a future release. I only hesitated because on every try i did to make SpamD run on Windows was not of the best, but if the SpamD is running on Linux, what can i say! It just do the work and it does it better than anything else! :-)

Possitive vote from me.

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Post by Shiloh » 2006-12-18 18:10

The only part of SA that I want in hMailServer is the tiny SpamC code and some small logic code to decide what to do based on a score. I definitely do not want the bulk SpamD core to get dumped into hMailServer. That would bloat the project terribly.

What we do is run SpamD on FreeBSD. Then we have a COM object that the VBS script in hMailServer calls to connect to SpamD on the FreeBSD boxes. My COM object is basically just an even faster way of doing SpamC, because we do not have to launch a spamc.exe process. The overhead of launching spamc.exe processes was becoming a bottleneck on busy days. The COM object does not have that launch overhead, so it scales much better. We cluster several FreeBSD boxes using pfSense to ensure good performance.

I have tried in the past to run SpamD on Windows and realized the same thing you did. SpamD runs poorly on Windows.

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Post by Licano » 2007-02-26 01:01

Muy necesario

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Post by martin » 2007-09-30 16:44

There will be a minimal SpamAssasin integration in version 5. In the settings, you'll be able to enter the host name and port of a spam assassin server (spamd) hMailServer should use. When hMailServer does spam proteciton, it will then connect to this server and let it scan the message. The spam score SA gives the message will be added to the hMailServer spam score.

This solution is probably not flexible enough for all users, but for most users it should be a good start. It only takes a few clicks for users to set up the integration and no scripts are needed. Users who wants a more flexible solution can still use scripts.

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Post by ravensorb » 2007-10-01 01:40

It would be great if you could add two threshold options as well. One to mark a message as spam (subject rewrite) and a second one to indicate that a message should be rejected.

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Post by ^DooM^ » 2007-10-01 09:08

ravensorb wrote:It would be great if you could add two threshold options as well. One to mark a message as spam (subject rewrite) and a second one to indicate that a message should be rejected.
That is a great idea.
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Post by martin » 2007-10-02 23:32

I have alraedy added those options.

It will be mostly global settings though. You'll be able to specify different "points" for the different spam protection mechanisms. There will also be a very simple/basic integration towards spamassassin so that you can collect a "score" using that one as well, and there will be one new event where you can do external spam protection and add points.

After that, you can define (on a global level) at what scores to tag and/or delete email. Also, it's possible to choose to reject email instead of just deleting it. In that case, all spam protection is made while the sender is still connected. So you can tag email at for example 3 points and delete at 6. Or you can set up rules on user/global level to delete / tag / move spam if you really need it on user-level (will require manual work though). Also, hMailServer will add more headers to the email message which explains which spam protection mechanisms were used to calculate the score. I'm pretty sure some people still won't find it flexible enough. But it should be enough for most.

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Post by westdam » 2007-10-03 10:33

hey martin, did you see this also :
http://sawin32.sourceforge.net/

it's the native port of spam assassin for windows. i believe no perl required anymore..
hope it helps and hope it's not yet discussed before :p

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Post by martin » 2007-10-03 21:03

Yupp I've seen it. Using it myself in a few installations and appears to work fine. =)

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Post by westdam » 2007-10-03 22:46

yes.. i'm using it and damn, it's quite fast
not as linux SA but mooore than win and perl :)

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Post by Shiloh » 2007-10-08 23:25

I would not exactly call SAWin32 a native Windows port. A native port would be something that was written completely for a certain OS. SAWin32 is still a perl based solution. But perl has been compiled into the executables. So it is easier to set up, because you do not have to install Perl separately. But don't confuse this with a native port. If you run SAWin32, then you are still using Perl. And don't expect it to perform any better (speed or reliability) than other distributions of SA. It is not a true native port. For the best performance and reliability with SA, you really need to consider using Linux or FreeBSD to host SpamD. That is the platform that SA was designed around. The SAWin32 release is no exception.

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Post by Shiloh » 2007-10-08 23:26

Martin: I have read your posts on the upcoming integration of the SA client stuff in hMailServer. It sounds very promising. I look forward to seeing it in action.

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Re: SpamAssasin Integration

Post by Milan » 2008-10-14 14:17

For antispam I prefer to use ASSP, is stable on windows, self learning, just install and forget. Why to implement features which are allready done.

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Re:

Post by westdam » 2008-10-14 15:29

Shiloh wrote:Martin: I have read your posts on the upcoming integration of the SA client stuff in hMailServer. It sounds very promising. I look forward to seeing it in action.


where i can find this info?

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Re: SpamAssasin Integration

Post by mbreitba » 2008-10-14 15:54

Milan wrote:For antispam I prefer to use ASSP, is stable on windows, self learning, just install and forget. Why to implement features which are allready done.
ASSP is pretty good, but it just doesn't scale well. A backend SpamAssassin solution scales much better than ASSP running on the same server.
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Re: SpamAssasin Integration

Post by Shiloh » 2008-10-15 01:28

No matter how much hardware is dedicated to ASSP, it does NOT scale. ASSP is one of the worst performing applications that I have seen in years. If the ASSP application was completely rewritten with performance in mind, it could be a very useful application.

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Re: SpamAssasin Integration

Post by westdam » 2008-10-15 02:16

give a try to ewall similar but more robust for me.
http://www.sssolutions.net

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Re: SpamAssasin Integration

Post by fjansen04 » 2008-10-15 09:32

westdam wrote:give a try to ewall similar but more robust for me.
http://www.sssolutions.net
Exactly. It stops most spam for me also.
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Re: SpamAssasin Integration

Post by Shiloh » 2008-10-19 18:49

I tried eWall a few years back. I really liked a lot of things about it. It was slick and easy to use and had acceptable performance. However, eWall crashed all of the time when there was a heavy load placed on it. But the issue may have been a bug in eWall and that bug could have been fixed since then. I really cannot say for sure because I have not tried using it since then. If the current version of eWall is stable, I would definitely recommend it over ASSP.

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Re: SpamAssasin Integration

Post by mpfrench » 2008-10-25 03:47

Actually, I've run hMailServer for over a year and rarely have any spam get through it. By activating the server's connection features (DNS Blacklist, MX verification, HELO name verification), I've blocked 99.99% of all spam before it gets delivered.

The only drawback to this approach is that once in a while, a legitimate, non-spam mail server is given a name that does not resolve in DNS to the actual IP address that connected and this situation must be handled manually by working with the admin on the other end to get him to fix his name problem.

Martin has done a superb job in hMailServer of fighting spam! I don't see a need presently for tools such as Spam Assasin.

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Re: SpamAssasin Integration

Post by Shiloh » 2008-10-27 17:15

mpfrench: The main reason to use a tool like SpamAssassin is to filter spam without blocking legitimate email. It is true that you can block the vast majority of spam by simply blocking using RBLs, SPF, HELO verify, and other stuff like that. However, those simple tools often block entire email servers instead of just individual email messages. When you block entire email servers based on a spam filtering tool, then you will block some legitimate email along with the spam. Very few email servers are entirely spam or entirely legitimate. Most email servers are a mix of both. SpamAssassin can parse individual messages and look for spam patterns and then decide whether or not to block an individual message. When you use SpamAssassin, you can relax some of the other filtering tools, which will greatly reduce the number of legitimate emails getting blocked or lost.

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Re: SpamAssasin Integration

Post by ^DooM^ » 2008-10-27 20:18

This argument is moot as it has already been integrated with V5.
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Re: SpamAssasin Integration

Post by martin » 2008-10-27 20:38

Moot it is. Moving to archive.

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