Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

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mikel2006
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Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by mikel2006 » 2013-04-17 05:07

Hi,

My Hmailserver version is 5.3.3 and using the builtin database, can I straight away install / upgrade to version 5.4?

Is there any other settings / configuration I need to do before changing the version?

thanks,

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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by Bill48105 » 2013-04-17 05:13

Yes it should be straightforward upgrade but as always you should do full backup before upgrading. There have been some people who get notices from hmail after upgrading about full paths in the database. They should be fixed but they don't really hurt anything. Other than that most upgrades are pretty uneventful.
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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by mikel2006 » 2013-04-17 05:17

Ok, noted. Thanks.

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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by gruenie » 2013-04-21 13:57

Hi Bill,
I just upgraded 2 hMailServers from version 5.3.3 to 5.4.
After doing it I always have been promted to run the DDS because of the path-changings of messages from absolute to relative in the database. I'm using an external version of mysql-database.
But the synchronization needed much more then 1 hour for about 25.000 messages.

In the near future I'm planning to upgrade the next hMailServer to version 5.4. But there are about 100.000 messages!
Is there a possibiliy to speedup that process?

Gruenie
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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by mattg » 2013-04-21 14:21

I just run a query on the database to fix paths, took seconds with more than 200 000 messages

Search here, I did post my update query. (I also run external MySQL)
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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by gruenie » 2013-04-21 15:27

Hello Matt,

thanx for the repply.
Did you speak about the following query?

Code: Select all

UPDATE hm_messages SET messagefilename=REPLACE(messagefilename, messagefilename, right(messagefilename,42));
... which deletes all on the left side of the braceleft of the message-filename (left of 42 signs).
If yes I will try it if I upgrade the other server.

By the way:
Several times I was reading that not to change the absolute pathes to relatives will not end in errors, but I think there is one case you will get an error:
If you want to change the name of an account and you have just 1 entry in the database with the absolute path it will not work and you get an error. Just wanted to mention it.

Thanx for your help.

Gruenie
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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by Bill48105 » 2013-04-21 16:16

gruenie wrote:Hello Matt,

thanx for the repply.
Did you speak about the following query?

Code: Select all

UPDATE hm_messages SET messagefilename=REPLACE(messagefilename, messagefilename, right(messagefilename,42));
... which deletes all on the left side of the braceleft of the message-filename (left of 42 signs).
If yes I will try it if I upgrade the other server.

By the way:
Several times I was reading that not to change the absolute pathes to relatives will not end in errors, but I think there is one case you will get an error:
If you want to change the name of an account and you have just 1 entry in the database with the absolute path it will not work and you get an error. Just wanted to mention it.

Thanx for your help.

Gruenie
Thanks for posting that Grunenie BUT I should warn that UPDATE should never be run until the SELECT query is run to see what would be changed and a backup of the database is made AND unless the person understands what they are doing. The update should be relatively safe IF the paths are standard. But there is a risk of unwanted changes because that update assumes a lot & blindly truncates at 42 char which is very very bad if paths are not standard..

This is the select hmail uses to detect bad paths:

Code: Select all

SELECT * FROM hm_messages where LEFT(messagefilename, 1) <> "{";
That should be run & output noted before running the UPDATE.
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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by gruenie » 2013-04-21 16:49

Hi Bill,
I'm not sure if I got the sense of that query:

Code: Select all

SELECT * FROM hm_messages where LEFT(messagefilename, 1) <> "{";
?

If Iunderstand it right it should give back all lines where the first char from the left side is not a braceleft. Right?

In the installation I want to update in the near future I got the same result using this query as if I use:

Code: Select all

SELECT * FROM hm_messages
... so it means that all lines match this query.
Is that what we want to know? But I do not get the sense behind this?!

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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by mattg » 2013-04-22 00:06

Yes - normally in earlier versions the full path was entered, and so all entries in the database will match the 'not start with a left brace'
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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by Bill48105 » 2013-04-22 02:05

What mattg said. :D The query is to be run after upgrading to 5.4 because part of the upgrade process is to truncate all the old full paths to just filename & they all start with { so the idea is by running the SELECT as shown it will show you ones that did not convert. Obviously running that on older versions of hmail should return all messages. DO NOT run that UPDATE on 5.3 or any other hmail since they used full paths & you'll break hmail. It's ONLY for 5.4.

Btw now you know why I said not to blindly run that UPDATE without doing the SELECT 1st & knowing what you're doing. ;)
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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by mattg » 2013-04-22 02:29

Bill48105 wrote:... because part of the upgrade process is to truncate all the old full paths to just filename & they all start with {...
Is that correct?
I thought users had to run the DDS to convert the old paths, or use a script like the one mentioned above.

(Yes I agree do the 'select' first, and test test test)
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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by gruenie » 2013-04-22 04:10

Hi Bill,
thanx again for the explanations!
Yes I got it that the changes of the path (from absolute to relative) starts with version 5.4 and so I for sure will not run the mysql-update-query in versions before 5.3.3. Thanx for the warning! :-)

I'm surprised too (like Mattg) that the update-procedure of hMailServer to version 5.4 normally should change the pathes in the database because if I remember right it did not do it in the updates of the 2 installations I already finished. But I'm not absoluely sure. all what I know is that running the DDS needs much more then 1 hour for just 25.000 messages.

So ok, you are right, that it has not much sense to run the select-query in a database before version 5.4 of hmailserver. :-)

But I see I haven't been able to make me understandable related to my quetion about the sense of the select-query.

So I try it again and now I speak about the sitation after updading to 5.4 - anyway if there would be none, some or all pthes changed.
The following update-query will truncate all characters on the left side of the file-name which normally should have 42 chars:

Code: Select all

UPDATE hm_messages SET messagefilename=REPLACE(messagefilename, messagefilename, right(messagefilename,42));
Am I right?
And what would that script do with entries which just have 42 characters? There is nothing truncate or to delete on the left side, if there are just 42 characters. Wouldn't that update-query leave the entries with just 42 characters untouched? Or am I wrong?
That was my question about the real sense behind the select-query. ;-)

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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by Bill48105 » 2013-04-22 05:17

gruenie wrote:Hi Bill,
thanx again for the explanations!
Yes I got it that the changes of the path (from absolute to relative) starts with version 5.4 and so I for sure will not run the mysql-update-query in versions before 5.3.3. Thanx for the warning! :-)

I'm surprised too (like Mattg) that the update-procedure of hMailServer to version 5.4 normally should change the pathes in the database because if I remember right it did not do it in the updates of the 2 installations I already finished. But I'm not absoluely sure. all what I know is that running the DDS needs much more then 1 hour for just 25.000 messages.

So ok, you are right, that it has not much sense to run the select-query in a database before version 5.4 of hmailserver. :-)

But I see I haven't been able to make me understandable related to my quetion about the sense of the select-query.

So I try it again and now I speak about the sitation after updading to 5.4 - anyway if there would be none, some or all pthes changed.
The following update-query will truncate all characters on the left side of the file-name which normally should have 42 chars:

Code: Select all

UPDATE hm_messages SET messagefilename=REPLACE(messagefilename, messagefilename, right(messagefilename,42));
Am I right?
And what would that script do with entries which just have 42 characters? There is nothing truncate or to delete on the left side, if there are just 42 characters. Wouldn't that update-query leave the entries with just 42 characters untouched? Or am I wrong?
That was my question about the real sense behind the select-query. ;-)

Gruenie
The 5.4 installer should truncate full paths to just the filename & that's what normally happens. A few people have had very weird paths so the update misses some or worse corrupts the paths. So normally there is no need to run the data dir sync tool. As a matter of fact running it if the SELECT returns no results is likely a waste of time. Granted understand the DDS tool has multiple functions.. It can find lost/orphan emails & add back into the database & it can remove database entries where the files do not exist any more. So it does serve a purpose besides fixing paths. Understand though that often it does not fix paths for various reasons. That's why the preferred method is to run the SELECT to SEE if any exist then backup & run the UPDATE *IF* doing so makes sense for what is returned by the SELECT. If it's obvious that the last 42 chars of your paths returned would not be a proper standard EML filename then do not run the UPDATE & fix them manually or a different sql query. (An example case is at least one user who somehow had Windows 8.3 paths which obviously got corrupted during the upgrade & that UPDATE query would have truncated improperly as well.)

Yes that UPDATE should not touch any that are proper 42 char filenames since nothing would be changed.
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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by gruenie » 2013-04-22 05:43

Oh I see, you always have good explanations, dear Bill - so its always a good idea to ask you! ;-)

Yes, of course I know that the DDS has several other tasks to do beside to change the pathes.
In one of the updates to version 5.4 I did in the last days the DDS-script found about 20 files which have been there but have a size of 0kb.
Probably the use of DDS is a good way to clean the installation, but as I told before: the script needed for about 25.000 messages much more then one hour (if I remember right it has been nearly 2 hours) and so I have been scared about what whould be if I update the next hMailServer which has nearly 100.000 messages.
But of course I will follow your advice first to run the select query and of course I will do a backup before doing anything.

Thanx again, Bill ;-)
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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by Bill48105 » 2013-04-22 15:37

Right the dds helps clean up but as you found they were worthless messages so they weren't really hurting anything to be there. If you want to do a dds after hours some night then sure if that's what you want but not sure I'd include it as part of the upgrade process when you are trying to be quick as it's not needed, it takes a lot of time & there are better ways to fix paths.
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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by gruenie » 2013-04-22 16:15

Thanx again, Bill! ;-)
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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by gruenie » 2013-04-26 12:00

Hi Bill,
I upgraded the next hMailServer with about 130.000 messages from version 5.3.3 to 5.4 successfully.
After the upgrade has been ready I checked the table "hm_messages" in my mysql-database
and run the "select query...." at first.
The result has been as already mentioned and as I had it in memory from my last upgrade: Not one path has been changed from absolue to relative; 100% of the pathes are like before.
So it really seems that the upgrade script does not do any changes here.

After running the "update query" (of course I did a backup before) all was fine!

Gruenie
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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by mattg » 2013-04-26 15:57

gruenie wrote:The result has been as already mentioned and as I had it in memory from my last upgrade: Not one path has been changed from absolue to relative; 100% of the pathes are like before.
That's the way I remember it too.

Thanks for the followup. Glad it worked for you.
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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by Bill48105 » 2013-04-26 17:25

gruenie wrote:Hi Bill,
I upgraded the next hMailServer with about 130.000 messages from version 5.3.3 to 5.4 successfully.
After the upgrade has been ready I checked the table "hm_messages" in my mysql-database
and run the "select query...." at first.
The result has been as already mentioned and as I had it in memory from my last upgrade: Not one path has been changed from absolue to relative; 100% of the pathes are like before.
So it really seems that the upgrade script does not do any changes here.

After running the "update query" (of course I did a backup before) all was fine!

Gruenie
I've not looked at the upgrade installer but something shortens the paths only makes sense the installer does it.
Glad you got it sorted.
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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by mthurner » 2013-04-27 07:06

And to think, our users have no idea of the issues involved with saving either their nonsense tomato soup recipe from auntie or their deal breaker 6 figure confirmation email they lost the attachment print outs for...

Got to love HMS
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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by Anarethos » 2013-05-21 23:26

Hi everyone,

I just upgraded from 5.3.3 to 5.4. I am using the built-in database.

After the upgrade, I still had the full path in the database.

I tried to run this script

Code: Select all

UPDATE hm_messages SET messagefilename=REPLACE(messagefilename, messagefilename, right(messagefilename,42));
from the Microsoft SQL Server Manager Console, but it failed. It seems that this kind of database cannot use the "RIGHT" or "LEFT" option.

So I had to do the following :

1) For each user, run this command

Code: Select all

UPDATE hm_messages SET messagefilename=REPLACE(messagefilename, 'C:\Program Files\hMailServer\Data\<DOMAIN>\<USER>' , '')
2) Then run this one to remove the "\<2 random character>\" part at the beginning

Code: Select all

UPDATE hm_messages SET messagefilename=SUBSTRING(messagefilename,5,42) where messagefilename like '%\{%'
Now everything seems to works and I only have relative path now in the database.

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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by mattg » 2013-05-22 01:27

Anarethos wrote:I tried to run this script

Code: Select all

UPDATE hm_messages SET messagefilename=REPLACE(messagefilename, messagefilename, right(messagefilename,42));
This is a command for MySQL and not MS SQL CE

Also, please be aware that the MS SQL CE is NOT intended for anything but small home users, and it is against the EULA of that product to use it in a commercial environment.
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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by Anarethos » 2013-05-22 03:03

I am using hMailServer for only my own personal account and my girlfried account. I use DynDns MailHop service to bypass my provided SMTP blocking.

And for now, I am not running my businness with this account, so I guess that it fit my needs :)

Question : Does the built-in backup/restore tools works with external database?

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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by Bill48105 » 2013-05-22 05:08

Anarethos wrote:I am using hMailServer for only my own personal account and my girlfried account. I use DynDns MailHop service to bypass my provided SMTP blocking.

And for now, I am not running my businness with this account, so I guess that it fit my needs :)

Question : Does the built-in backup/restore tools works with external database?
Yes that is a valid use of mssql ce. Personal only. Although we generally recommend people really consider using at least mysql since ce is crippled & really just meant for testing but if you have low enough use guess not likely a big deal.

Yes built-in backup supports all supported db types. As a matter of fact it's the preferred method to change db types. The 'catch' is you can't have too much email (15GB now but was 1.5GB before mid-cycle 5.4 beta builds).
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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by Anarethos » 2013-05-22 05:42

Thanks!

So the best way to go from built-in database to MySql (I already have MySql installed for RoundCube and OwnCloud) is :
- Backup hMailServer using built-in backup tools
- Uninstall hMailServer and delete everything left
- Reinstall but with MySql database this time
- Restore using the built-in tool

And, if later I have too much data for the built-in backup tools :
- Stop hMailServer
- Backup the whole hMailServer folder (Data, config file, etc.)
- MySql Dump of the database
- Restart of MySql Database

????

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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by mattg » 2013-05-22 07:14

Yep, that's pretty spot on.

Only restore to same version as backup was made on. Cross version backup / restore isn't supported.
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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by Bill48105 » 2013-05-22 07:20

Anarethos wrote:Thanks!

So the best way to go from built-in database to MySql (I already have MySql installed for RoundCube and OwnCloud) is :
- Backup hMailServer using built-in backup tools
- Uninstall hMailServer and delete everything left
- Reinstall but with MySql database this time
- Restore using the built-in tool

And, if later I have too much data for the built-in backup tools :
- Stop hMailServer
- Backup the whole hMailServer folder (Data, config file, etc.)
- MySql Dump of the database
- Restart of MySql Database

????
Sort of. While you COULD do it that way, there is no need to uninstall & reinstall hmail. You just run dbconfig tool that is part of hmail. (hmailserver database setup icon on start menu). That will allow you to change db type. Then you restore. Another thing to note is you should ensure all traffic is blocked before doing backup/restore if you want to avoid lost messages or things out of sync. There are a few ways you could go about it.. Such as blocking/remapping ports in firewall or simply turn off the services (uncheck all 3 on protocols page). Or do it with ip range (turn off services) or even change all ports to non-standard. Either way the point is to stop all connections before you backup so no changes happen until you are done. Once you have restored do some checking in admin & testing yourself alone without everyone else jumping on. You want as little changes as possible once you start it back up in case you need to roll back for some reason. And obviously it's a good idea to have a complete system backup before you start just in case.

A few side-notes. there is an experimental method in newer 5.4 that allows the migration without actually backing up the mail files but needs to be used with care. It is meant for people with tons of messages who can't backup using internal or it'd take too long.

And yes you can manually migrate using dumps but that only works if you are sticking to same database type or one that is compatible.
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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by Anarethos » 2013-05-22 15:46

I will do some experiment Under VMware to check my backup/restore plan to be sure.

Thanks for the help and the clarification.

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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by Anarethos » 2013-05-23 01:16

Ok,
I moved to MySql Database (backup, uninstall, reinstalled in another directory, reinstalled) and everything was OK.

Then, I stopped hMailServer, did a MySqlDump and backup on the "Data" folder. Did a clean install of MySql and hMailServer under VmWare (new path, new password, new db name). Stopped hMailServer, copied the Data directory and reloaded the SQL file in the new database.

Everything is perfect. So I will stick to this method of backup/restore as it seems robust.

Thanks all :D

Just for the fact that 5.4 use relative path in the DB is worth the upgrade for itself!

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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by Bill48105 » 2013-05-23 01:50

Anarethos wrote:Ok,
I moved to MySql Database (backup, uninstall, reinstalled in another directory, reinstalled) and everything was OK.

Then, I stopped hMailServer, did a MySqlDump and backup on the "Data" folder. Did a clean install of MySql and hMailServer under VmWare (new path, new password, new db name). Stopped hMailServer, copied the Data directory and reloaded the SQL file in the new database.

Everything is perfect. So I will stick to this method of backup/restore as it seems robust.

Thanks all :D

Just for the fact that 5.4 use relative path in the DB is worth the upgrade for itself!
ok cool glad it went smoothly.
Yeah the relative path is just one of 100 reasons 5.4 is better than 5.3.x. :)
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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by perrynewton » 2013-07-29 18:22

I am reading about editing the paths within the database. However, can someone please advise whether the upgrade process from 5.3.3 to 5.4 does this edit automatically or whether I have to go into the MySql database and do the SELECT and UPDATE as decribed?

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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by percepts » 2013-07-29 20:10

upgrade to 5.4 should do it. If it doesn't, run the SQL update.

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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by WilliT » 2013-10-16 09:19

Hi everyone,
I'm going to upgrade from 5.3.3 to 5.4 as well and I have another question: I'm running roundcube as webmail interface. Does this affect the upgrade process? Is there anything different that I have to do before/while upgrading?
Thanks in advance.
Edit: I'm using MySQL

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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by mattg » 2013-10-16 10:57

Your roundcube installation should work in isolation to your hMailserver installation. For instance they should use separate databases.


Perhaps check with roundcube support to see if they have any suggestions.
Just 'cause I link to a page and say little else doesn't mean I am not being nice.
https://www.hmailserver.com/documentation

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Re: Upgrading from 5.3.3 to 5.4

Post by percepts » 2013-10-16 13:54

As Matt says, if in doubt check with roundcube.

Rouncube does not access hMail DB directly. It makes calls using IMAP or SMTP protocol only and it doesn't store or have any links in its own database to anything in hMail DB directly except reference by name only to IMAP folder structures which it will/can refresh anyway.
The Roundcube DB contains very little. Just settings, account information and some cacheing.

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