XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

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Do you think XLIST should be added to hmail?

Yes even if no RFC I need it
19
79%
Yes but only if at least an RFC draft
4
17%
No I have no need
1
4%
 
Total votes: 24

mic.max
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XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by mic.max » 2012-12-05 11:09

The new Outlook 2013 have revised the IMAP management. For complete support of IMAP feature the mail server must provide the XLIST support. Can you add this?

Thanks

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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by ^DooM^ » 2012-12-05 11:10

Please show RFC's for this XLIST feature.
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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by mic.max » 2012-12-05 11:19

Thanks for your istant reply!

place the link that explains the problem better:

http://social.technet.microsoft.com/For ... bbb330ec2/

example XLIST from gmail server:

http://www.limilabs.com/blog/localized- ... ap-folders


thanks

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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by mic.max » 2012-12-05 11:29

I also found this:

https://developers.google.com/google-ap ... extensions

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Extension of the LIST command: XLIST

Gmail also provides an extended version of the LIST command, advertised as XLIST when running the CAPABILITY command. Executing XLIST is identical to LIST except that it also provides a localized name and attributes for special folders. These attributes let the client know which folders are special (eg. \AllMail). The current list of special folders is: Inbox, Starred, Sent Items, Draft, Spam, All Mail.

The following is an example transcript of a call to XLIST:
a004 XLIST "" "*"
* XLIST (\HasChildren \Inbox) "/" "Inbox"
* XLIST (\Noselect \HasChildren) "/" "[Gmail]"
* XLIST (\HasNoChildren \AllMail) "/" "[Gmail]/All Mail"
* XLIST (\HasNoChildren \Drafts) "/" "[Gmail]/Drafts"
* XLIST (\HasNoChildren \Sent) "/" "[Gmail]/Sent Mail"
* XLIST (\HasNoChildren \Spam) "/" "[Gmail]/Spam"
* XLIST (\HasNoChildren \Starred) "/" "[Gmail]/Starred"
* XLIST (\HasNoChildren \Trash) "/" "[Gmail]/Trash"
* XLIST (\HasNoChildren) "/" "test"
a004 OK Success

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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by ^DooM^ » 2012-12-05 14:16

Right this seems to be a google/microsoft thing currently and I could not find any official RFC documenting XLIST capabilities so until their is an official one I wouldn't hold your breath on getting this implemented any time soon.
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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by Bill48105 » 2012-12-05 18:45

Funny when people expect features to be added to fix problems in other people's software especially when there is no RFC regarding such feature.. XLIST looks interesting but it's ridiculous for Microsoft to expect every server out there to add it in order to fix a shortcoming in Outlook 2013. Perhaps a better solution is for them to release an update to Outlook that fixes the real problem..
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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by mic.max » 2012-12-05 19:22

The problem is not google / microsoft. I posted the example of google because their servers support XLIST.

Microsoft chose in outlook 2013 to manage the folders in this way, and there will be no update or fix this.

No one expects that some people solve problems than others, mine was a request for a feature that seemed to be useful for all users, and maintain compatibility of hMailServer with the new microsoft software that will be widely used in the future I think!

Thanks

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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by dzekas » 2012-12-05 20:26

mic.max wrote:To one expects that some people solve problems than others, mine was a request for a feature that seemed to be useful for all users, and maintain compatibility of hMailServer with the new microsoft software that will be widely used in the future I think!
Compatibility should be maintained with specification and not with Microsoft. That's why you were asked to provide RFC or at least specification draft reference.

If you want to know how compatibility with Microsoft works, ask Digital about it or check with developers, who use MS dev toolkits longer than 5 years.

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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by mic.max » 2012-12-05 21:28

I just asked, I do not pretend to be realized. however XLIST is an extension of LIST function, there is no RFC for this.

stay relaxed.... :lol:

bye...

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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by Bill48105 » 2012-12-06 05:55

mic.max wrote:The problem is not google / microsoft. I posted the example of google because their servers support XLIST.

Microsoft chose in outlook 2013 to manage the folders in this way, and there will be no update or fix this.

No one expects that some people solve problems than others, mine was a request for a feature that seemed to be useful for all users, and maintain compatibility of hMailServer with the new microsoft software that will be widely used in the future I think!

Thanks
How many servers out there support XLIST? How do you know M$ won't release an update? Perhaps they won't but if enough people complain (or stop buying Outlook) they very well could. ;)

In terms of the feature request, we'll have to wait & see if it has enough merit (being an official standard would be a good start) and if enough people ask for it. (If you don't have a poll on the 1st post we can add one.)
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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by Martin88 » 2013-02-06 15:33

Is this the document you are searching for?
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6154

For our part, Outlook is that much important, that it has set standard inside our company - no matter how wrong this procedere may be.

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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by Bill48105 » 2013-02-06 18:06

Martin88 wrote:Is this the document you are searching for?
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6154

For our part, Outlook is that much important, that it has set standard inside our company - no matter how wrong this procedere may be.
Thanks Martin88 that's a good start but still just at 'proposed' as far as I can tell. I know martin (creator of hmail) wants to keep hmail standards-based & rfc compliant but not sure on if he wants RFC's final or at what stage they're considered 'standard'. Maybe he'll chime in & let us know.
Thx
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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by mattg » 2013-02-07 00:30

Martin88 wrote:Is this the document you are searching for?
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6154
That document doesn't mention XLIST

Yes it mentions LIST and Extended LIST capabilities, but not XLIST

To me this just highlights why we need to follow RFCs, and not some large commercial vendor's interpretation of them.
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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by Bill48105 » 2013-02-07 02:41

mattg wrote:
Martin88 wrote:Is this the document you are searching for?
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6154
That document doesn't mention XLIST

Yes it mentions LIST and Extended LIST capabilities, but not XLIST

To me this just highlights why we need to follow RFCs, and not some large commercial vendor's interpretation of them.
Hmm good catch. Guess I should have read it closer :D Wonder if related though..
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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by mic.max » 2013-02-10 20:36

XLIST = E"x"tended "LIST"

:) :) :) :) :)

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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by billyjp » 2013-02-15 13:35

Would be great if the xList feature would be integrated in one of the next betas. Still a lot of people use MS Outlook. So thats why we need it.

I see the prob. with the "no RFC" thing. But my clients dont care about that. They will not change the MailClient that use over years. They will change the Server.

So please add it. ;)

PS: Here (http://www.campaignmonitor.com/resource ... l-clients/) you can see that 20% of all users use Outlook.

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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by Bill48105 » 2013-02-15 16:48

billyjp wrote:Would be great if the xList feature would be integrated in one of the next betas. Still a lot of people use MS Outlook. So thats why we need it.

I see the prob. with the "no RFC" thing. But my clients dont care about that. They will not change the MailClient that use over years. They will change the Server.

So please add it. ;)

PS: Here (http://www.campaignmonitor.com/resource ... l-clients/) you can see that 20% of all users use Outlook.
I hear you, about 95% of my clients use Outlook but in your example 80% DON'T so it's not even close to simple majority.. As a matter of fact a super majority DO NOT. :D Btw NONE of my users are for it or care for xlist so it can be argued both ways. ;)

I might take a stab at something once 5.4 is released because a huge hurdle is that it would require changes to the database which I am not at all inclined to do as it causes a HUGE headache for compatibility & installation. (Right now my drop-in experimental are just that, "drop in", and require no database changes or worries about compatibility. So no way I'd monkey with when 5.4 release is imminent. And even then I'd prefer to find a way to do it without db changes but not sure that's possible.
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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by ^DooM^ » 2013-02-15 18:02

Just to add my oar into this, I don't need this nor do any of my users. Just while we are throwing stats about :)
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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by Beban » 2013-05-03 12:44

I'm a very-very-long-time hMailServer user (more than seven years for sure) and I've always been happy with it's price / value ratio. Until upgrading to Office 2013, when Outlook messed with my IMAP folders.

I strongly support XLIST feature to be added into hMailServer regardless of the specifications. Specifications are JUST documents and don't always respect the REAL (commercial) standards in whatever the field is. I fear hMailServer crew and the product itself has no real chance to fight against Microsoft / Google market power, it's only way is to adapt or to be forgotten. It seems to me a little ignorant to make a product, how obscure specifications want it to be rather than how users want it to be. I don't care about RFC as long as the mail is working. Most of my time I spend with my Outlook (not my hMS), which I need to work properly - properly being the Outlook way, not the spec way. We've seen in the past, that many non-standards became standards when widely adopted afterall.

Thank you for REALLY considering the benefit od XLIST, not just dismissing it for not being an actual standard.

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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by simonegiusti » 2013-05-14 19:08

I upgraded to Office 2013 and I have the same problem !!
If XLIST is the only way for Imap to work well ... please implement it !!
Many thanks from Italy ...

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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by bagu » 2013-05-14 22:41

Same problem here.

Thanks to consider the benefit of adding xlist
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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by Bill48105 » 2013-05-15 00:42

This is one of things I've brought up with martin. we've been holding off on adding new features until 5.4 is done but still talk about things for 5.4.1. can't say this will be one of them honestly. While outlook is very common, 2013 is awful and it's ridiculous to expect mail servers to adjust to one program out there. Besides there are many MANY things like starttls that have been waiting much longer, have many more votes, are actual standards & will benefit many more people that will be worked on before xlist.

Btw what exactly does not work right with outlook 2013 without xlist? Has anyone bugged microsoft about this?
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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by Bill48105 » 2013-05-15 01:12

Have people tried some of the online solutions/workarounds?
http://www.msoutlook.info/question/736
http://www.slipstick.com/how-to-outlook ... look-2013/

This one just because it's amusing:
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/offi ... 14695bc255
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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by mattg » 2013-05-15 02:33

Bill48105 wrote:This one just because it's amusing:
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/offi ... 14695bc255
+1
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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by Martinic » 2013-07-01 12:14

We use Outlook 2013 more and more. If XLIST is implemented in a hMail Beta version please tell me the version. I like to test it.

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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by Bill48105 » 2013-07-01 16:40

Martinic wrote:We use Outlook 2013 more and more. If XLIST is implemented in a hMail Beta version please tell me the version. I like to test it.
XLIST is not in any version of hmail.
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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by Martinic » 2013-07-01 17:18

Hi Bill,

Do you have time to implement this? Perhaps we can help? Summer camp project ;-).

Thanks,

- Martin

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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by Bill48105 » 2013-07-01 18:06

Martinic wrote:Hi Bill,

Do you have time to implement this? Perhaps we can help? Summer camp project ;-).

Thanks,

- Martin
There is no ETA or even confirmation XLIST will be implemented in hmail. 5.4 is open source if you or someone else wants to add it. It'd be up to martin (creator of hmail) if submitted changes go into official code or not.
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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by Martinic » 2013-07-02 06:26

Thanks Bill, we will take a look. Where can we pull the hmail 5.4 source?

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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by mattg » 2013-07-02 08:16

Martinic wrote:Where can we pull the hmail 5.4 source?
svc.hmailserver.com I think
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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by Martinic » 2013-07-02 12:00

Thanks Mattg,

I think I found it on http://hmailserver.com:60951/svn/hms

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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by Martinic » 2013-07-04 07:44

Bill48105 wrote: There is no ETA or even confirmation XLIST will be implemented in hmail. 5.4 is open source if you or someone else wants to add it. It'd be up to martin (creator of hmail) if submitted changes go into official code or not.
Bill
Hi Bill, We just compiled hMailServer for the first time and will start testing if Outlook 2013 it is not just working with IMAP Special-Use List Standard (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6154) because XLIST is already deprecated. See also :https://developers.google.com/gmail/imap_extensions.
If we implement RFC6154 perhaps we can generate XLIST from the Special-Use List if Outlook 2013 needs this. Note that \All, \Junk and \Flagged are called \AllMail, \Spam and \Starred in XLIST.

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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by Bill48105 » 2013-07-04 07:52

Martinic wrote:
Bill48105 wrote: There is no ETA or even confirmation XLIST will be implemented in hmail. 5.4 is open source if you or someone else wants to add it. It'd be up to martin (creator of hmail) if submitted changes go into official code or not.
Bill
Hi Bill, We just compiled hMailServer for the first time and will start testing if Outlook 2013 it is not just working with IMAP Special-Use List Standard (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6154) because XLIST is already deprecated. See also :https://developers.google.com/gmail/imap_extensions.
If we implement RFC6154 perhaps we can generate XLIST from the Special-Use List if Outlook 2013 needs this. Note that \All, \Junk and \Flagged are called \AllMail, \Spam and \Starred in XLIST.
LMAO XLIST already deprecated?! Wow glad we didn't jump on that bandwagon! ROFL! Ok I'm better now. :D

What you found is good news though in terms of standards. Will be interesting in terms of Outlook 2013 issues though if it requires XLIST or not. I haven't dug in myself so any info you find is helpful. In particular standards-based stuff. ;)
Thx
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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 and 2016 IMAP support.

Post by AndreL » 2017-06-04 10:43

Outlook 2016 in IMAP mode is using Xlist or IMAP Special-Use List Standard.

No way anymore to select manually the sent or deleted IMAP folder. Selection is "automated".

Without this feature, Outlook (2013, 2016) as hmailserver client is becoming unusable.

And always at least one of my customers is using outlook...

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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by lifeofguenter » 2019-06-30 09:43

would be great to get this supported (https://developers.google.com/gmail/imap_extensions) - e.g. "SPECIAL-USE" imap command.

Quite a number of clients rely on this server-side feature to properly map imap folders

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Re: XLIST feature add for Outlook 2013 IMAP support.

Post by mattg » 2019-07-01 02:24

XLIST is deprecated

The Gmail-specific XLIST command was deprecated in 2013 in favor of the IMAP Special-Use List Standard. Clients are strongly encouraged to migrate from XLIST to the Special-Use industry standard as soon as possible. Note that the Special-Use standard attribute names are similar but not identical to the legacy XLIST attribute names.
Also see>> viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34124
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